Genvid & Dies Gaudii Forums

Are there, by chance, any veterans of AFSM here? If so, I'd like to track you down.

For those of you not aware of what Alt.Fan.Sailor-Moon is, it is a newsgroup started in 1995 by Ken Arromdree for the discussion of all things Sailor Moon. A precursor to a forum such as this. I was pretty active in the late nineties, early 2000s. With the Live Action series, there was a brief spurt of activity, but it has since waged a losing battle against spam.

I, and a few others, have attempted to wrestle it back into activity.

I don't know how newsgroups are managed, are there admins who can clean it? The first page looks nice, but all other pages are still stuffed with penis enlargment spam and what not. I think that can scare away quite a few people, if not all.

Newsgroups are a completely different system than what most people are used to today. They're not even http, they're nntp. The short answer to your question is no.

The long answer is that newsgroup messages are not stored on any one server. They're stored on several newsservers across the world. Google is but one, and one that is http based. Universities, internet providers, even hobbyists duplicate all message traffic. It can take anywhere from a minute to hours, at one point about twenty years ago, some messages would take as long as days to show up on your specific server. So, yes Google itself could delete the spam messages from its servers, but that wouldn't delete the copies of the spam located on other newsservers. Now, many newsservers have spam control filters that stop spam messages from even being duplicated, and if you are on one of those, you won't even see the spam. Google has a policy of duplicating everything for archival purposes, so no one is manning the conn, so to speak. If you use a free newsserver like motzarella.org, for example, and use it with a newsreader program, you shouldn't have any issue with spam. Also, the more activity, the less likely spammers are to strike. Newsgroups are opposite forums in that way. Best way to get rid of the spammers is to generate more on-topic content.

Well, if you want my honest opinion, I think it's quite natural and logical that all newsgroups died out giving way to forums and other forms of online communications, and I hardly see a point in trying to revive something so obviously ineffective and outdated. Why should anyone bother to wait for hours for their message to show up if they can go to a forum instead and deliver message to everyone willing to read it in milliseconds, or tolearate spam hoping that next one will be stopped by some filters without having any clear guarantee that it actually happens *shrugs*

You're not alone in your opinion, although it may surprise you to know there are just as many people who consider it quite effective and not at all outdated. In fact, it may surprise you to find that there are individuals who dislike many things about forums. I don't consider one or the other better; I consider them different. There are other newsgroups, such as rec.arts.anime.misc which still have thousands of posters and hundreds of topics going on at once. Usenet isn't dead.



I said it could. It doesn't usually. Not anymore. The servers are just as fast as any other servers. As bandwidth has increased across the internet, so too has newsserver bandwidth increased. You can expect posts to show up immediately or within a minute or so. No, It's not as organized as a forum, but that is part of what makes it different. It is not a weakness.

The trouble with forums is that they are less anonymous, they require registration, they require moderators and administrators, they require rules. They are usually not backed up. Delete the forum, and you lose the posts. These are weaknesses of forums. Nothing wrong with this set up in certain circumstances. I happen to think this forum is quite normal, and I certainly will enjoy participating in it. However, I think the degree with which newsgroups allow much more... flexibility is still relevant, and effective, and therefore useful. Access is granted from a thousand different points, posts are stored around the world. The community's history is never lost. So, indeed, I think there is value in drumming up content.

Is that is an example of "active" newsgroup, then for sure Usenet is dead, sorry
The newsgroup encompassing the whole anime fandom has got some fifty active topics (first five pages) with last replies during March, whereas this very forum focusing on only one out of countless thousands anime series (which is far from being on the top of its popularity, additionally) has around a hundred of active topics with last replies during March.

Hey, you needn't apologise to me. You're still comparing apples and oranges here. Forums represent a factionalisation of the fandom that I think useful in some ways, dangerous in others. For me AFSM represents a counter balance of that factionalisation because it requires no adherence to any specific website, forum, mailing list, etc. It has no membership requirements, no ranks.

I'm hardly asking for an end to forums. And while my introduction (I guess due to the pins question) has followed the path into a debate of the usefulness of the sailor moon newsgroup, it is hardly my intention to spend all my time here advocating it. I think it still can serve a purpose, and if anything I was asking for everyone to perhaps take a moment to add a post here or there, not to necessarily become patrons. I wouldn't turn it down, but it wasn't my intention. I'm certainly not trying to lure members "away." That's the beauty of it, people can just drop what in whatever they want, whenever they want. I'm just trying to encourage more people to do it.

O_O
That went boom fast...
Personally, I feel that everyone has their preferences. Like me and GIMP vs Photoshop vs MS Paint even.
Different things fit different people, if not everyone would like everything the same.
I like green, Alice likes blue, and Steve likes neon pink and yellow plad. (AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!)
So just as some people prefer forums, others may still enjoy newsgroups more.
Instead of saying one or the other is superior (like it seems Maraviollantes is saying) try to co-exist. (like SailorTerra is doing)
And it's not a bad thing to want to bring more life to something that you enjoy. In fact that's a great thing to do! I'm sure there are quite a few people who would love to have the last season of Sailor Moon officially brought to the US (and various other countries) revitalizing the show and opening the way for new fans for example. (beyond the parents/friends introduction to it)

And... even though you technically joined before me, welcome SailorTerra! (and I still want an Artemis pin) >.>

Personally for most of my hobby related discussions I prefer to stick to snail mail. I'm having the most wonderful discussion about class balance in World of Warcraft. I've recently just told someone to "learn to play" and made a disparaging comment about their mother. I'm looking forward to their reply in 3 months.

Seriously, newsgroups aren't for me, but if they work for some people I don't see a problem with them.

Anyway, welcome to all the new people, enjoy your stay, etc.

I am not familiar with newsgroups at all. All I know is from the intro topic and something about giving out pins... (still wants an Artemis pin)
I don't know how likely you would be to find old people from it, but maybe there are some new people who might be interested here. (especially if they could score a nifty Artemis pin) XD

[off-topic]{Edit}
Whoa! And allot of topic fusing!
At least I know the staff here are pretty active in keeping things clean around here. [/off-topic]

I'm not sure about how exactly to get the pins reorderered, I'd have to talk to Phoenix. There aren't very many of them, since they were usually made and handed out on an individual basis. I would bet that between the Luna and Artemis pins, there are only maybe 30 total in existence. Furthermore, they were offered as rewards, medals essentially, for services rendered on behalf of the newsgroup. Yes, we have to have them made, so they can be bought, but they shouldn't be bought by the recipient. That changes it from an award to simply a product. And I'm sure you agree that defeats the purpose.

Or you could ask yourself by posting on the newsgroup. It's pretty easily done via google, although I really would tell you that you should consider getting an account on an actual newsserver. Your ip might carry one (should, in fact), if it doesn't I know at least two free newsservers that carry AFSM. All you have to do is sign up for access, get a newsreading program (or even use something like Mail or Outlook, which both have access). That way you shouldn't need to worry about spam.

I think if people are serious about helping out with the resurrection of AFSM, then there could be pins in it for them. I know that there are also probably AFSM veterans who only have one or the other, or none at all, that would like to be involved if there was a new run. So, yes, I think it's doable. I'd be willing to pay for it, if so.

UPDATE: Just been informed in fact, 200 were made, but several people got multiple copies. The person in question who mentioned to me actually had five. O_o

I'll have to check it out, I'm always up for new things, or I guess in this case an old thing. XD
Ahh, this takes me back to my dream of being a Sage on Nintendo's forum (and getting that snazzy Triforce pin) back in the day. To bad that dream died. >.>
(Just to be sure it's clear, I'm not saying I'll try only for the pin, that's silly. It's just... a goal.)

Mord and I were discussing the possibility of the pins. Setup fee, if we need to set it up, is going to be expensive. And I wouldn't want to do a run unless I was sure that the newsgroup had the traffic to warrant it. However, if traffic does warrant it, then maybe at some time in the future, we can look at adding a Diana Pin.

I know this thread is a few weeks old but...

I've still got my Artemis pin from way back in the day. Dr Xadium told me that AFSM was having a revival of sorts, good to see that some places are still around.

I skimmed through the usenet vs forums debate over there. There's an interesting point being made about how forums, since they have a host who's usually an admin, basically have someone whose opinions are framing the show, while usenet, with its lack of moderation and hosting, is a more true free-for-all.

I pretty much agree that comparing usenet to forums is apples and oranges in that sense.

They made Artemis pins?

My Luna pin is safely tucked away somewhere around here. I was one of the people sending in contributions for the vote on what motif we were going to have for the pin (I had Ami's computer with "AFSM" written on the screen) - we had eight or so to choose from, but when the Luna pic came up every other alternative just sort of died...

A.f.s-m was a great place to be back when the anime was still happening; got lots of memories and revelations there.
I had to phase out when local fandom arose here in Sweden and it became obvious I would be more useful on the domestic scene. Later on I discovered my ISP had scrapped their news server since so few people were using it, and I never really got back to Usenet again after that.

I have a Luna pin and two or three Artemis pins around here somewhere...

I haven't really looked at afs-m in ages, though. I was having news server issues with my ISP for a while and by the time I switched ISPs it'd been long enough that I'd kind of lost interest.

How much gravey does Serena, does she make?

And I met Kerochan's Miko via AFSM.

(My handle there was Davyd Stormtree. And I'm not dead yet.)

I was a regular of AFSM quite some time ago, from like mid-90s until the first couple years of my first college run, probably because of news server issues at the time but I can't honestly remember. It was good times there, very enjoyable. Can't say I'd mind a revival of some sorts but I'm happy with how things are now.

I don't know, but are you interested in buying a yatch?

I was too shy to put any messages on AFSM, but I used to read it on a regular basis. It was extremely useful when it came to following the series in Japan (especially the end of the anime and manga series), plus it is where I learned of VKLL's fansubs.

I may have said elsewhere that BSSM is not my main fandom, and while, yes, I've been "stuck in the mirror," it's because I went back to graduate school and will finish in June. I still "live" in Kyoto, but I'm doing my MA in Texas. I have long-term residency in Japan, and will return after I finish my coursework and thesis.

I'm necro-posting for a reason. I recently dug out my copies of the infamous Luna and Artemis AFSM pins and thought I'd share. My Luna pin actually snapped, and I had it repaired earlier today by a jewelry smith. Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd toss it into this thread...



I, myself, haven't visited AFSM in years either. Just too darn busy.

Those are awesome.

The main reason why it's likely been hard to get more activity on a.f.Sailor-Moon is because most major ISP providers, namely Road Runner, AT&T, and Verizon, have blocked Newsgroup access that was native through their own networks, due to bowing to the New York State Attorney General being all butthurt over the "illegal" uses for Usenet newsgroups, rather than just asking those ISPs to filter out ones that they didn't want their citizens in New York to have access to. So one jerk ruined it for everyone.

I miss WebTV a little. They had pretty good access to Usenet, though after a while some newsgroups were blocked because someone cried all over the content and therefore didn't want anyone else seeing those "bad" groups.

Most people who have Usenet blocked have to go through a 3rd party newsgroup provider, which isn't always free, and don't carry the Binaries groups a lot of the time.

Google has Google Groups and somewhat provide access to Usenet groups, but the way you use it is kinda not like using Outlook.

Hang onto those pins! That's fandom history!

Those pins are awesome!

I wish I had known about alt.fan.sailor-moon when it was active, but I was in kindergarten/first grade I read about it later and found it, but had been disappointed by the lack of activity. From what I could see, someone has been posting recently, but not much discussion has followed. Unless I just missed it.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=18127

I created this thread not too long ago. It's about moonie.ca (somewhat relevant to the topic here).

Oh wow, hi. I just found like 10 of the Artemis pins in my drawer, google searched for nostalgia's sake, and ended up here. Rick sent them to me back in the day to give out at cons, etc.

Anyway, hi. I used to live on afsm back in high school in the late 90s.

@oriharakaoru: Any chance I could buy a couple of those Artemis pins off you? I used to be a lurker on Alt.Fan.Sailor-Moon back in the day! <3 Super nostalgic.

Sent you a pm

Thanks!