Genvid & Dies Gaudii Forums

This is more than a rumor......
come on, we now know that they don't want to sell Sailor Moon's rights anymore.....anywhere.....to anyone.

Why would they want to do something like that?

That' the same thing I'd love to know.
Because, unbelievable or not...they're doing it.

Not wanting to sell the rights != "wants to erase Sailor Moon from anime history".

Is there anything I can do, anything at all, that would help even in the slightest improve even the chance of Sailor Moon being liscenced? I'm almost feeling ready to give in.

Buy Poptarts. Lots of Poptarts.

I'm serious.

Please, please don't make assumptions that there's something intentional about an absence. The only conclusion I drew from that article is that it's unlikely anything regarding Sailor Moon will be sold in 2007. Apart from that, no one is "trying" to erase Sailor Mooon from history, as I said in the article, it is only "curious" that Sailor Moon is not there among the other big hits.

We know nothing about the rights ownership debates that's going on behind the scenes. There could be good reason why Sailor Moon was deliberately left out. Or it could just be one lazy editor who forgot to add it. There are myriad possible answers and nothing can be concluded from just this analysis; all I was doing was presenting the fact of what is (not) there.

Forget Sailor Moon exists? I most certanly wouldn't put it past Toei: The anime batosai, to do so.

This is the same company that gave One Piece to 4kids.

Lemme repeat that.

ONE PIECE to FOUR KIDS

ONE OF THE GREAT MORDERN SHONEN ANIME TO ONE OF THE WORST COMPANIES EVER TO EXIST AND DO ANIME.

and then you have to remember their crap with Air Master, Slam Dunk and other such and well...this shit....I certainty won't past them.

Toei, as a company can go suck it.

You are doing the EXACT SAME THING I said fans shouldn't do, because it's an emotional, conspiratorial response based entirely on assumptions, an assumption of guilt and intention to do "harm" without any basis on facts. You cannot point me to any quote from Toei that says, "We hate Sailor Moon and all you fans can go suck a lemon." For all we know, they could want to air the series and it's Takeuchi that won't let them; Kodansha didn't mention Sailor Moon either. We have no real information to go on, and there you go ranting on Toei without justification.

Don't make my forums stupid, and don't post again in this thread. That's a warning.

I'm sorry Jadeite2...... It's my fault.

Don't worry about that, another person's reaction is not your fault, especially when it came directly after a request of mine to avoid making those assumptions.

Ok, my two cents.
I've mentioned it on the wiki, and it was discussed to death on Swedish forums a year and a half ago, but given how the line of reasoning is going perhaps I should add a note of it here as well.

Bonnier is one of the oldest and largest publishing houses here in Sweden; it's like a hundred years old and has had a sizeable chunk of the domestic market for generations, kind of like the market position Kodansha has in Japan.
Their subsidiary Bonnier Carlsen is the leading publisher of manga over here, among other things making a local version of Shonen Jump and pocket editions of a couple of dozen pocket series (Dragonball, EVA, One Piece, Naruto, Love Hina, et al). They use their own distribution chains, making their publications widely available in general magazine stores; I once found their Manga Mania magazine next to the latest issue of National Geographic...

In late '03/early '04 they were in discussions with Kodansha about releasing the Sailor Moon manga in Swedish as a pocket series. The deal seemed to be running smoothly, a publishing date (August 2004) was announced and a translator had already started to work on it. Then, in late February, Bonnier Carlsen announced that the publication had been put on hold - Kodansha had gotten in a "copyright dispute" with Takeuchi over international licensing and so had frozen all non-Japanese licenses until further notice.
No details were given, but it was hardly a mere rumor - it came directly from one of their business contacts at Kodansha. I've heard it myself from the responsible editor-in-chief at Bonnier Carlsen, and it's still given as the reason in the manga FAQ section of their site.
Apparently, "until further notice" is still in effect today, and it's been frozen enough that Manga Mania was not even allowed to print single panels or character portraits for a feature article on Sailor Moon.

Note that Toei was never even mentioned; the this was solely about the SM manga... but a copyright dispute does sound a bit more plausible than a sinister conspiracy to kill a successful franchise. (It also means I don't buy the "nobody's interested in buying a license anymore" explanation either; Bonnier Carlsen wanted to, and got turned down. They asked for permission to print a few panels, and got turned down. Few things but copyright jams create that kind of solid refusal.) If that's the case, it's really rather likely that Toei is in the same situation.

As for conspiracy theories... Given how it seems to just go on and on, some believe it's actually a case of Naoko being unable to handle the pressure of worldwide fandom (it's well known that she's been pretty harrowed by stress through the years), some fear that they may have buried the discussion and sacrificed the international market for the sake of mutual good relations. But as I said, no details have been given so it's not known what exactly that dispute is supposedly about.

That's a fine example of some of the potential problems people should be aware of.

I should note, though, that when considering the analysis of the book that's currently on the front page, that's meant for domestic Japanese consumption, and it licensing for Sailor Moon is not there either.

I agree that it's weird, but that (whatever it means) has to be a more recent development -- wasn't it only last year that they released Stars on DVD over there?

I think that stuff was set up years ago, and it was just a matter of pacing the releases.

Oh no; it isn't a thing that nobody's interested in the franchise

We recently knew about the Italian case (much similar to what happened in Sweden)
As far as I know, Viz from Mexico was really interested to get the reedition of the manga (and the fans have been claiming for years for a DVD release; they did it with Saint Seiya, another Toei anime)
Glenat from Spain has been thinking about a reedition too...
And if I'm not recalling wrong, even Tokyopop was considering that posibility!

Yeah, it's not a matter of uninterest. And after considering everything that has been said...it's more plausible a conflict with Kodansha rather than Toei @.@

I have nothing particular to add to this thread other than it gave me a good laugh that I REALLY needed badly today. ::giggle::

Thanks to both the guilty and innocent.

heh.

Well, since this was linked in the update, I will say my piece on that matter. Although I watch AS frequently I didn't see that bump. Reading the text upset me a bit personally. I did not interpret the remark as a hint that AS would pick up Sailor Moon, nor would I if I hadn't been warned not too. (Despite the fact that AS loves doing the opposite of what people ask them, they aren't in a position to show it anyway.)

I'd like to know more about the comment that says Sailor Moon wouldn't fit with Cartoon Network's plans. What exactly are their plans? From a non-Sailor Moon-related stance I'd like to know what's going through their heads, especially since they've had so few decent shows lately, will that change?

I've found that their on-line programming line-up, (Which I can't get too, dial-up ) Is more interesting than their current Saturday line up. I've also found that there are, like two worth-while non-anime shows on that network these days, which is really sad.

Sean Atkins said a couple years back that Sailor Moon wasn't part of the current Toonami strategy (young males) and wouldn't be returning.

FYI the bump aired after Aqua Teen I think.

Anime in general doesn't seem like it'll be on alot in the near future. *sigh* On the bright side, for me it means less time watching TV and more time doing more meaningful things, like writing. I'm also really upset with that network, they seem to enjoy messing with viewers; and the daytime (Cartoon Network) schedule is pissing me off with all the adds they like to show, during the show. They'll be loosing me as a viewer alltogether if this trend continues.

Are there other networks that might show it, if circumstances were simpler?

Ever since anime went the "it's cool for teenagers and adults" way instead of the kiddie wave Sailor Moon was part of in the mid-90s, it's not been the type of stuff most networks would show. Even the kiddie anime these days is of a different breed, lots of card and video game based stuff like Yu Gi Oh which are hooked to specific networks rather than syndicated like DBZ/SM were.

As for Cartoon Network, when I'm in the US I only watch their Adult Swim programming block on Sunday nights. It's hit or miss, with some fantastic shows like Venture Brothers, Harvey Birdman, and Aqua Teen, and some really bad stuff like Squidbillies, Frisky Dingo, and Metalocalypse. At the same time, as a fan of animation, I think it's cool that they do some really experimental stuff on AS that you wouldn't see anywhere else.

Oh yeah, I forgot how much I like those since I haven't seen them in so long. (Can't stay up late on Sunday since Summer ended)

I personally can't predict where anime will go in the next few years, but I don't have a very positive feeling.

Hearing people puppy about the status of anime in America annoys me.

I'm not into anime any more, save for Sailor Moon and a select other series, but it still makes me irritated.

I remember back in the day, especially 1997-1998 (which I consider a very high point in the Sailor Moon fandom; the online community was thriving) when finding ANYTHING related to Sailor Moon or anime was near impossible, save for Suncoast video, and as far as Sailor Moon went, all they had was the DiC VHS.

My sister, my friends, and I were all teased mercilessly in middle school (1996-1998) for liking Sailor Moon and Japanese cartoons. Now manga is everywhere and it's not considered out of the ordinary at all, from what I understand. I wouldn't know since I graduated high school 3 and a half years ago and never went to college (yeah, I'm a winner!)

I'm not trying to personally attack you or anything. I'm just frustrated. Most anime fans are such a whiney, annoying bunch. Especially Sailor Moon fans, who are generally uneducated about the series itself, and have always whined for more of the series, but the DVD sales in the U.S. were never that great. They always try to figure out some great scheme (POPTARTS!!!!) to bring the series back, but go about it in ridiculous ways, don't conduct research, and don't even understand what companies own what.

[end bitter rant]

What you describe is not something unique to anime but the common result of something that goes from niche to mainstream. You move from an informed, small collective to an large pool of people with varying ranges of dedication toward being informed.

If you don't like the mainstreamers, you stick with the hardcore fans, and vice-versa.

The extremes of Sailor Moon fans are still not as bad as their equivalent DBZ fans.

Anime is probably on a good but shaky cart for the time being. (note 4Kids dubs of Tokyo Mew Mew and Ojamajo Doremi). Fuunimation titles on ColorsTV (Dish network 9407) notwithstanding either. Or dubbed Samurai7 on IFC from time to time - or ADV's dubbed only Anime on Demand on some digital cable systems.

Adult Swim has nothing of interest for me, and personally, it's all crap I won't bother to watch. Not funny either. (Except for the Sailor Moon Robot Chicken clip which I did collect - heh)

At any rate, fans should support good shows somehow when they get licensed and are reasonably priced while being properly translated for the subtitles (who watches those dubbed anyway?). I've stopped publicly discussing what fansubs I've been watching, for personal reasons. It just seemed like whatever I liked as fansubs, someone found out and goes to license it. Except for Mamotte Shugogetten and dammit someone needs to get the manga going again and then do the anime as a $20 boxed set.

BUT back to the main topic - if someone could find out what Takeuchi's problem with licensing is /was and if it could be remedied... then I think Sailor Moon would flow again over the land and all would be well. Someone needs to talk to Takeuchi-sensei.

ja ne nyo deshi...

I love just as much of the programming on Adult Swim as I hate. 12 oz. Mouse has to be the most horrid show I've ever seen. Now The Venture Bros., that is some quality watchin'. I give their anime a wide berth, I can't stand most anime in general. As for the re-licensing of SM, my mother always used to say, "Wish into one hand and shit in the other, and see which fills up first..." She was so wise and so foulmouthed.

Oh I know~ I just remember being so frustrated when I was like 13 trying to get my hands on the Sailor Moon manga and more than just the DiC video tapes. Of course, back then, that's all that was being released because it had yet to be picked up by Pioneer/Geneon.

Now, thanks to the Internet, getting Sailor Moon is so much easier, ESPECIALLY with torrents. I remember when fansubs were something you sent a distro a money order for and got a VHS copy in return! But it's awesome to be able to go online and order items straight from Japan.

And yes, the Sailor Moon fans aren't that bad. I just wish sometimes that the collective intelligence was a bit higher.


I know, it's just plain weird. I wonder if the copyright dispute is also responsible for the hiatus of the musicals. I hope things just get figured out soon.

I consider myself an anime fan, but I don't like all anime indescriminately. (Who does?)

I enjoy Trinity Blood and Bleach a bit, but they don't excite me. I loved Evangelion. I didn't like Eureka 7, because I was extremely bothered by the lack of any apparent plot. "They have fighting robots. Why? Why do you want to know?"

I forgot how much I loved Venture Brothers.

Whore: (hoarse) I need you my king butterfly!

The Monarch: Deeper! Much deeper!

I laughed until I coughed.

As far as conducting research, I don't know any better source than here. So I come here.

Whiny and annoying? Quite so, not just about anime. The main reason I wish there were more anime on TV is because I can't afford to buy or download any. I was teased for liking anime too, you know. And it hurt. It hurt to be rejected because I enjoyed different types of entertainment from my class mates. And this happened this year. It's still not considered socially acceptable.

I've said my views before. More of the series would be great, but all I want is the media that's already been made to be distributed legally and fairly so I can legally own them and others who are fans of it can too.

DVD sales weren't great? I'm not surprised. Low quality, and by the time I found out the DVDs existed the first two seasons were already out of print.

(Just responding to the various comments) I watch dubs. I usually watch both. Alot of dubs get screwed up, but some (very few) have moments when they're better than in Japanese, and quite a few have moments where they're bad to the point of being laughable.

I'll have more to say later.

Please don't think my comments were directed at you. What you said got me started on something that has nothing to do with you personally. It was just kind of a rant about things in general. <3

I'd imagine that since you're male, you'd probably get a lot more heat for watching Sailor Moon than I ever would.

Yeah, all the DVDs released here were poor quality, especially ADV's R boxset. I've heard rumors that Toei was responsible, but honestly, ADV and Geneon could have invested a little money in improving the video quality on those. They should have anticipated a backlash. The online Sailor Moon community is huge, and always has been. With the plethora of websites out there, they should have known that word would travel fast of the low quality of these releases.

OFFTOPIC~ Venture Brothers is hilarious. I can't figure out why people hate 12 oz. Mouse, though. I think it is the funniest random stuff in the world. I also believe the show intended for the viewer to watch it while either drunk or stoned, not that I'm advocating such behavior. The creators HAD to be drunk or something when making that show, though.