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 Post subject: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi (New Book!)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:13 pm 
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I hope this belongs to this subforum. ^_^' I'm also not sure if there should be the [adult content] notice, I can add it if you want, or one of the admins can.

........................

I'm currently reading Black Dog's doujinshi which, in part, is related to a major writing project I have on my hands. I'm relatively new to this, that's why I want to start a discussion and hear all opinions on it. I've researched the web, and seriously, most Sailor Moon hentai related sources of any value are threads from this forum. ^_^' I'm interested in any thoughts and opinions you have on it, whether you hate Black Dog or not, and whatever you wanna share.

Links to valuable resources will be very much appreciated, too. :D I don't mean random hentai pics or fanfics, more like reviews, essays, crtiques, whatever.

For starters, I want to share some personal reflections just to make things light. I will start by saying that I totally adore "Submission Sailor Stars" and I adore it mostly because of the plot. IMHO, this piece deserves an anime movie, if for adults. I love how it retains the original Sailor Moon atmosphere and plot devices. Whether you choose to put the sexual content aside or not (e.g. substitute it with ordinary fight), it's exactly what every Sailor Moon fan can expect from a well-made special. :) I appreciate the humorous parts at the very end of the arc, they are so authentic, in my opinion, that you almost believe it's a canon SM piece. Senshi power-ups were totally awesome - the best I've seen in either canon version of BSSM. I like it that the girls act pretty much in character (I don't want to elaborate on it right now); the piece about energy they absorb from Sailor Saturn to transform anew totally fascinated me; legions of youma and the mako tree, references to civilisational issues, etc. - all together make a great story; it's simple and easy to follow, but at the same time it contains a wealth of symbolic/philosophical subtexts.

I also like Elizames! :D Just so incredibly cool! As much as I'm not into collecting anything, I'd buy a plushie. ^_^ :love:
It's this mixture of danger, threat, childlishness, and nonsense I love so much about many SM villains (mostly youma, and other second category beings). :wink:

Scenes of rapes constitute a major part of the whole thing, and these need to be examined very closely. However, there are some instances along the storyline which, in a way, already challenge the masculine domination Black Dog is so well-known for - even if that happens only at the level of symbols.

What do you think, guys?

Oh, and a random thought: This is an absolutely beautiful piece of art! :eeklez: :love: This picture alone deserves a 5-thousand words essay. :D


Last edited by Catty Gossip on Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:35 pm 
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As I know of, Black Dog is like the cream of the hentai Sailor Moon genre, but I've only skimmed thru the pages of some of his works at some doujin stores, hence ain't in a position to make any in-depth comments, aside from that his art is superb.

Your sample pic could even satisfy a criteria for being an art piece - it provokes thoughts, whether one is a Sailor Moon fan or not. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
As I know of, Black Dog is like the cream of the hentai Sailor Moon genre, but I've only skimmed thru the pages of some of his works at some doujin stores, hence ain't in a position to make any in-depth comments, aside from that his art is superb.

Your sample pic could even satisfy a criteria for being an art piece - it provokes thoughts, whether one is a Sailor Moon fan or not. :cool:


Yes, I was already half way through with his doujinshi, when I decided it deserves more attention and gave up on further arcs to re-read everything page by page and put down notes/study questions. :D

And yes! His art is magnificent! :love: I don't understand why so many people accuse him of being SM hater. :ninja: Having the senshi raped, doesn't make him a hater, it's way too simplified. You can just take a look at the sample picture I attached, to see that the guy totally *feels* Sailor Moon. When you see Sailor Moon like that, you almost want to cry. I don't think a Sailor Moon hater could actually come up with an image like that.

I'm a bit worried that not too many people actually read Black Dog, but I hope I can get something out of you. In any case, I can strongly recommend "Submission Sailor Stars" as a great reading material - unless you're too sensitive to rape-scenes and other violent stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:02 pm 
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Queen Eris wrote:
I'm a bit worried that not too many people actually read Black Dog, but I hope I can get something out of you. In any case, I can strongly recommend "Submission Sailor Stars" as a great reading material - unless you're too sensitive to rape-scenes and other violent stuff.

I've no problem w/ sex & violence, however extreme they are, & I don't think his works are really extreme in those departments. And thx for your recommendation - I'll keep an eye on it when I've got the chance to pick up his works again. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:01 pm 
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I've checked out the various Black Dog doujinshi on sailormoon.biz and checked out the picture examples. He has good artwork, but I'm not really into the rape and violence that's done, so it's not my thing. I don't know if that's all he does, since I gave up looking after a few books, but if there are a few books/stories that don't involve violent rape, I might consider checking it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:40 pm 
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I like their doujin, though I haven't really read much. I haven't read anything that had much of a plot. I think I liked Burning Down the House most.

I think that there are too many about being raped on a train, though. Don't get me wrong, train gropers is a good idea for hentai, but a lot of their work is just about train groping. It gets boring.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:11 pm 
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Panda-Chan wrote:
I think that there are too many about being raped on a train, though. Don't get me wrong, train gropers is a good idea for hentai, but a lot of their work is just about train groping. It gets boring.


I know what you mean, but that might actually be symbolic. Any closed space from which it is difficult to get out at any chosen moment, especially those that are of phallic shape, can signify confinement, subjection, and an absolute domination over the female. Almost like double-rape - both anticipating and prolonging sexual violence. Trains are very often used in such representations. It's actually Freudian and totally cliche, but don't expect hentai to be very original.

The only thing I find annoying is that the senshi who are featured in subsequent pieces are quite often Mercury and Saturn. :dead: I can't see how they can be considered very sexy, and I suppose it has to do with their innocence which is questioned/assaulted/proved unreal. But that only amounts to the question of violence. Pretty much the same as the girls climaxing in circumstances far from arousing - to say the very least of it. :ninja:

Anyway!

I'm kind of screwed whenever it comes to sex/rape/body/violence stuff, because there's no hentai dictionary on the web. :roll: I'm fine googling stuff, but it's of little help. Most of the articles I've read, I can see, are ill-informed and westernized. I need to situate my analysis in both Western and Eastern contexts.

Btw, to ask some of the questions I have, I need to post screencaps containing hentai, where can I upload such pieces without being chased around by some haunted web-master? P-:


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:07 pm 
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The bulk of his works, almost all of which were translated, may be found here: http://www.hentairules.net/index.php?s=black+dog

I love Black Dog. Ive.... read ^_^' probably all of this sailor moon books and then some. He does capture a bit of the spirit and how the girls might actually act in those extreme situations.

I watch real porn for the physicality, but I read hentai books for a somewhat interesting plot or character interactions wrapped around the secks.

I really liked a series he did, but I don't tihnk he completed, where they all separately wind up getting banged by normal/seminormal people. Aqua Necklace, In a Silent Way, and Burning Down the House are the ones I have.

My one complaint is that in his later works, hes taken to drawing them all with the exact same builds..

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Panda-Chan wrote:
I think that there are too many about being raped on a train, though. Don't get me wrong, train gropers is a good idea for hentai, but a lot of their work is just about train groping. It gets boring.


I have to agree there, it gets REALLY boring. Especially the plot in one of the doujins when the grl who was groping Minako was *le gasp* REI IN DISGUISE.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:38 pm 
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Sub Zippo wrote:
My one complaint is that in his later works, hes taken to drawing them all with the exact same builds..


I agree. At some point, it seems like he's almost using the same sketches and simply reworking them a bit. ^_^' I've noticed that already.

BurningCrusade wrote:
Panda-Chan wrote:
I think that there are too many about being raped on a train, though. Don't get me wrong, train gropers is a good idea for hentai, but a lot of their work is just about train groping. It gets boring.


I have to agree there, it gets REALLY boring. Especially the plot in one of the doujins when the grl who was groping Minako was *le gasp* REI IN DISGUISE.


That's boring for a reader, not for a wanker. P-:

I consider all of it boring for the most part, to be honest. Those instances where some plot really takes place can make up for it, though. So far, I'm quite satisfied with what I've read. I like it how the stories and characterization try to imitate the original without totally ripping it off.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:44 pm 
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If it has a good story, and characters that are beleivable. I would be sexually attracted XD.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Ashe wrote:
I've checked out the various Black Dog doujinshi on sailormoon.biz and checked out the picture examples. He has good artwork, but I'm not really into the rape and violence that's done, so it's not my thing. I don't know if that's all he does, since I gave up looking after a few books, but if there are a few books/stories that don't involve violent rape, I might consider checking it out.

Same.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:28 am 
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Guardian Ayumii wrote:
Ashe wrote:
I've checked out the various Black Dog doujinshi on sailormoon.biz and checked out the picture examples. He has good artwork, but I'm not really into the rape and violence that's done, so it's not my thing. I don't know if that's all he does, since I gave up looking after a few books, but if there are a few books/stories that don't involve violent rape, I might consider checking it out.

Same.


There really isnt much in the way of violence. As for the rape, to be honest, they rarely put up much of a real fight....... Its usually more of a "no, stop, it feels good!" playout.

But I'm depraved, and theres only a few things in hentai I'm NOT into.. so maybe I'm just desensitized.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:13 am 
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just A question. doesnt that picture of sm bent over with the wings belong to xkaosu?

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:16 am 
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Queen Eris wrote:
The only thing I find annoying is that the senshi who are featured in subsequent pieces are quite often Mercury and Saturn. :dead: I can't see how they can be considered very sexy, and I suppose it has to do with their innocence which is questioned/assaulted/proved unreal. But that only amounts to the question of violence. Pretty much the same as the girls climaxing in circumstances far from arousing - to say the very least of it. :ninja:

I think you've actually partly answered your own question. :wink: It's all about the sexual fantasies of many Japanese men - forcing innocent, loli-looking girls to involuntarily experience & then actually enjoy the pleasures of being sexually assaulted, hence converting/corrupting their original innocent personalities/minds.

And train groping isn't just a fantasy in the country - it's a very real crime/social problem there, which is even exported to neighboring countries via the various materials of that porn genre. The female-only train sections are now not only adopted in Japan, & the age of the offenders is continuously falling, currently some as young as junior high schoolers.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:44 am 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Queen Eris wrote:
The only thing I find annoying is that the senshi who are featured in subsequent pieces are quite often Mercury and Saturn. :dead: I can't see how they can be considered very sexy, and I suppose it has to do with their innocence which is questioned/assaulted/proved unreal. But that only amounts to the question of violence. Pretty much the same as the girls climaxing in circumstances far from arousing - to say the very least of it. :ninja:

I think you've actually partly answered your own question. :wink: It's all about the sexual fantasies of many Japanese men - forcing innocent, loli-looking girls to involuntarily experience & then actually enjoy the pleasures of being sexually assaulted, hence converting/corrupting their original innocent personalities/minds.


Yes, it's actually very unrealistic. ^_^' But I agree that this is what it is. Woman's sexual sphere is marginalized; it's a shameful secret that the offenders (the male raping protagonists), try to uncover.The girls are supposed to feel guilty and embarassed that they can actually get aroused. And it's shown in such a way as if the girls denied their sexuality in the first place, and were proved wrong by their rapists. Moreover, awakening their sexuality is like defeating them. I don't think I have to tell you what feminists would tell you about this. :ninja: It's been like this in many cultures, however in hentai it's absolutely overexposed. When they say like "I'm gonna make you wet like a woman" - it's like "I'm gonna show you what a slut you are, you won't fool me".

In the Western culture, still at the turn of 18th and 19th, and the 19th and 20th centuries, female sexuality was associated with the woman's being relatively old and experienced (as opposed to young and innocent), or simply corrupt - sexually active woman always threatens men's position in the society - and that often has to do with human reproduction and (at least) middle-class men's fears and anxieties connected with being "presented" illegitimate heirs. Sexual violence, consequently, is almost like a revenge already - a revenge for the woman's dirty secret, for her potential to act in sexually active ways. It's also a mechanism of self-defence - instead of being anxious you can simply rape and impregnate the girl when she isn't even expecting it, and at a young age (before she realizes what her sexual potential is). There are also further psychological implications - sleeping with/raping a virgin or simply an inexperienced girl doesn't sound like a challenge. :P She has little or no chances of dominating over you, surprising you, and will never "control" the situation.

That might be a reason why older senshi (Haruka, Michiru (it's already clear that they already are sexually active anyway), and Pluto) aren't the target of Black Dog.

Rika-Chicchi wrote:
And train groping isn't just a fantasy in the country - it's a very real crime/social problem there, which is even exported to neighboring countries via the various materials of that porn genre. The female-only train sections are now not only adopted in Japan, & the age of the offenders is continuously falling, currently some as young as junior high schoolers.


Wow! I didn't know that! It's a very useful information for me, thank you! :) :love:


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:12 am 
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What you've said in the preceding post is quite accurate & to-the-point, & reminds me that in some cultures/religions, women are considered as inherently evil in that they tend to sexually seduce men, hence in some parts of the world they even have to cover up their bodies, hair, & even faces, all of which can be sexually attractive to men, & they're discouraged to appear in public &, thereby, to be seen by men (when they do need to go out, not only that they've to be properly cover up, but also have to walk in less noticeable parts of the public areas).

So it's all women's fault for men's lust. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:17 am 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
What you've said in the preceding post is quite accurate & to-the-point, & reminds me that in some cultures/religions, women are considered as inherently evil in that they tend to sexually seduce men, hence in some parts of the world they even have to cover up their bodies, hair, & even faces, all of which can be sexually attractive to men, & they're discouraged to appear in public &, thereby, to be seen by men (when they do need to go out, not only that they've to be properly cover up, but also have to walk in less noticeable parts of the public areas).

So it's all women's fault for men's lust. :P


Yeah, and don't get me started on women covering their body parts and such, and in what parts of the world, and why because politics is banned here. :P

If you have any good web references to sex crimes in Japan taking place on trains (statistics, psychological synopsis,etc.), I will be very grateful and thankful to you! :keke:


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:25 am 
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Queen Eris wrote:
If you have any good web references to sex crimes in Japan taking place on trains (statistics, psychological synopsis,etc.), I will be very grateful and thankful to you! :keke:

I haven't done criminological research on this particular area, but I think such data won't be too difficult to find in the Japanese Google site. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:31 am 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Queen Eris wrote:
If you have any good web references to sex crimes in Japan taking place on trains (statistics, psychological synopsis,etc.), I will be very grateful and thankful to you! :keke:

I haven't done criminological research on this particular area, but I think such data won't be too difficult to find in the Japanese Google site. :wink:


True, which doesn't mean you couldn't do some part of my job for me if, accidently, you had lots of free time on your hands. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:06 am 
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Oh, of course, if I've come across w/ interesting news about it on Japanese webmags, newspapers, etc., I'll tell you here. :)

One I recall ATM is that the criminal profiles of those offenders show that they come from all walks of life, different social classes, & various personality backgrounds - in short, there're no stereotypes for them. It's as likely for a well-paid, married professional/exec to commit such crimes as a pathological social outcast/loner, & as I've said, even the school kids do that. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Sub Zippo wrote:
There really isnt much in the way of violence. As for the rape, to be honest, they rarely put up much of a real fight....... Its usually more of a "no, stop, it feels good!" playout.

But I'm depraved, and theres only a few things in hentai I'm NOT into.. so maybe I'm just desensitized.

It is probably because males find a girl being hard to get kinky, not sure.

I have to agree about the style it is always "no!, stop!" then boom. They are loving it and are screaming names, giving commands, as if nothing even happened.

Nah I understand what you mean, some art like that I can find hot. I jsut hate when they usually do it with the innocents, mercury, saturn, chibiusa and such. Saturn and Chibiusa are frickin' lolis and Mercury..I never found her hot really, there is too much hentai of her in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:51 pm 
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BurningCrusade wrote:
I jsut hate when they usually do it with the innocents, mercury, saturn, chibiusa and such. Saturn and Chibiusa are frickin' lolis and Mercury..I never found her hot really, there is too much hentai of her in my opinion.


Why it is so was already explained a few posts above. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:21 pm 
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BurningCrusade wrote:
I jsut hate when they usually do it with the innocents, mercury, saturn, chibiusa and such. Saturn and Chibiusa are frickin' lolis and Mercury..I never found her hot really, there is too much hentai of her in my opinion.

You've just pretty much summed up what a current mainstream hentai genre over there is all about. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:01 pm 
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I have decided to put that pic I attached in my first post on the cover of my project. :) It's so overwhelmingly beautiful that I just can't get it our of my head. I will ask someone talented to alter it a bit.

In any case, I will be making comparisons, too. But I want this project to be entirely devoted to Sailor Moon, that's why I'll be only comparing hentai doujinshi related to BSSM. I'm downloading all that are available in English from sailormoon.biz - if anyone knows about any other, anywhere, please let me know in this thread or via PM. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Queen Eris wrote:
I've researched the web, and seriously, most Sailor Moon hentai related sources of any value are threads from this forum. ^_^'

That's because all Sailor Moon hentai forums died off, much like it is happening with regular Sailor Moon forums now, unfortunately... In the past I frequented three Sailor Moon H boards, and all three do not exist any longer :dead:

As to Black Dog, I liked the whole "Maravaiollantes arc", but rather for humour and plots than for hentai itself. Hentai and art-wise he is not even in my "top ten" favorite doujinshi circles. He can draw very well, but still there are a lot of doujin artists who draw Sailor Moon characters by far closer to their official versions, and thus I like them better. A-Zone, for instance, or Moriman Sho-Ten. As to hentai... I guess I won't be too far from truth when I say that 90% of males who read Sailor Moon adult doujinshi are looking for *yuri*. And thus Black Dog kind of missed majority of his potential audience by doing almost exclusively male x female books ^_^'


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Maraviollantes wrote:
As to Black Dog, I liked the whole "Maravaiollantes arc", but rather for humour and plots than for hentai itself. Hentai and art-wise he is not even in my "top ten" favorite doujinshi circles. He can draw very well, but still there are a lot of doujin artists who draw Sailor Moon characters by far closer to their official versions, and thus I like them better. A-Zone, for instance, or Moriman Sho-Ten. As to hentai... I guess I won't be too far from truth when I say that 90% of males who read Sailor Moon adult doujinshi are looking for *yuri*. And thus Black Dog kind of missed majority of his potential audience by doing almost exclusively male x female books ^_^'


I'm glad to hear it, I was afraid I was the only one. ^_^'

I know men are looking for yuri, because they fantasize about a threesome. :P This is what feminists quite often challenge, the idea of female homosexual relations as straight men's fetish - lesbian love/sex isn't taken seriously, and is often not considered equal. But that's just a random thought. ^_^'

I'd also wish he drew their faces especially a bit closer to the original. Still, I think he's great. I've yet to read the rest, so I can't really say anything about that.

Btw, is what you've uploaded to your website all I can get? I mean BSSM hentai doujinshi. Or is there another place?


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:30 pm 
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Queen Eris wrote:
Btw, is what you've uploaded to your website all I can get? I mean BSSM hentai doujinshi. Or is there another place?

Recent "Beach Boy" and "Scary Monsters" are not uploaded as yet. They are available everywhere online though.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Maraviollantes wrote:
Queen Eris wrote:
Btw, is what you've uploaded to your website all I can get? I mean BSSM hentai doujinshi. Or is there another place?

Recent "Beach Boy" and "Scary Monsters" are not uploaded as yet. They are available everywhere online though.


Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion: Black Dog's Doujinshi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Just once I'd like to see a hentai manga that actually involved the feelings and emotions of the people involved instead of pseudo-rape or just spontaneous sex for no good reason. Black Dog is an excellent artist but I'm way too sympathetic to be able to enjoy reading his stuff. :confused: I see bad things happen to people and my mind automatically begins processing how I would feel in that position. The spontaneous sex stuff isn't something I'd complain about :tongue: but I'd like to see some affection/love and not just mindless sex.


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