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 Post subject: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:19 am 
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This is a head canon I've had for awhile. Let's look at some facts shall we

  • Sailor Moon did not exist in the Silver Millennium
  • Originally, the Sailor Moon Identity was a disguise to protect the Princess
  • All of Sailor Moon's powers come from items. Not a single attack is her own power.
  • Once her orginal locket is damaged or lost, it requires the Silver Crystal to continue transforming.
  • The Silver Crystal had to Evolve into the Silver Moon Crystal to become her Sailor Crystal.
  • When she became Neo-Queen Serenity full time, she became unable to Transform into a Sailor Senshi. At this point the Silver Crystal returns to it's original state
  • Chibi-usa gains the Silver Crystal, and the same things happen. It evolves into the Pink Moon Crystal, and she requires items to attack.

With these in mind we can theorize that Sailor Moon was never ment to be a full time Sailor Senshi, but unknowingly forced the Silver Crystal to let her be one once the need for the disguise ended. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:09 am 
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I think this is an interesting headcanon so far, Time Sage.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:49 am 
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Time Sage wrote:
This is a head canon I've had for awhile. Let's look at some facts shall we

  • Sailor Moon did not exist in the Silver Millennium
  • Originally, the Sailor Moon Identity was a disguise to protect the Princess
  • All of Sailor Moon's powers come from items. Not a single attack is her own power.
  • Once her orginal locket is damaged or lost, it requires the Silver Crystal to continue transforming.
  • The Silver Crystal had to Evolve into the Silver Moon Crystal to become her Sailor Crystal.
  • When she became Neo-Queen Serenity full time, she became unable to Transform into a Sailor Senshi. At this point the Silver Crystal returns to it's original state
  • Chibi-usa gains the Silver Crystal, and the same things happen. It evolves into the Pink Moon Crystal, and she requires items to attack.

With these in mind we can theorize that Sailor Moon was never ment to be a full time Sailor Senshi, but unknowingly forced the Silver Crystal to let her be one once the need for the disguise ended. Thoughts?

I definitely disagree with this all of the Moon Matriarchy in my eyes have the ability to become Senshi. She wasn't a Senshi in the Silver Millennium because her mother had the Silver Crystal but I definitely think that the Moon Matriarchy all had the power to generate Silver Crystals from their Starseeds. The Sailor Moon identity was never a disguise to protect the Princess it was always her warrior form. Further more in the manga post the Infinity arc even the other Senshi have to have their Crystals to transform they could not rely on their past pens or wands anymore to transform. Also Usagi was shown to have some power that was innate to her Moon Twilight Flash for instance came from her own power she used the power of Moonlight and reflected it from her tiara. Also in the video games Sailor Moon has an attack called Moon Sparkling Sensation which is basically her sending a burst of energy at the opponent it can be seen here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms5P4UGNQ1Q

Sailor Moon is definitely as much a Senshi as any other Senshi. She just had yet to awaken during the Silver Millennium. However if we remember in the manga Sailor Saturn only awoken in the Silver Millennium timeline after the kingdom's destruction of the Dark Kingdom. When Sailor Uranus, Sailor Neptune and Sailor Pluto went to the site of the Moon Kingdom their talismans together called forth Sailor Saturn who basically brought destruction to the Solar System and recreated it.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:10 am 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
=
I definitely disagree with this all of the Moon Matriarchy in my eyes have the ability to become Senshi. She wasn't a Senshi in the Silver Millennium because her mother had the Silver Crystal but I definitely think that the Moon Matriarchy all had the power to generate Silver Crystals from their Starseeds. The Sailor Moon identity was never a disguise to protect the Princess it was always her warrior form. Further more in the manga post the Infinity arc even the other Senshi have to have their Crystals to transform they could not rely on their past pens or wands anymore to transform. Also Usagi was shown to have some power that was innate to her Moon Twilight Flash for instance came from her own power she used the power of Moonlight and reflected it from her tiara. Also in the video games Sailor Moon has an attack called Moon Sparkling Sensation which is basically her sending a burst of energy at the opponent it can be seen here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms5P4UGNQ1Q

Sailor Moon is definitely as much a Senshi as any other Senshi. She just had yet to awaken during the Silver Millennium. However if we remember in the manga Sailor Saturn only awoken in the Silver Millennium timeline after the kingdom's destruction of the Dark Kingdom. When Sailor Uranus, Sailor Neptune and Sailor Pluto went to the site of the Moon Kingdom their talismans together called forth Sailor Saturn who basically brought destruction to the Solar System and recreated it.



In the manga We're actually shown Queen Serenity going to the Galaxy Cauldron and taking "A small star" that is strongly implied to be The Silver crystal. Also, both of those attacks you mentioned use an item. The Moon Twilight Flash uses the Tiara to reflect light, while Moon Sparkling Sensation uses her brooch IE The Silver Crystal, to use.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:43 am 
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This is interesting!




Quote:
[*]Sailor Moon did not exist in the Silver Millennium

I don't think this is indication that Serenity isn't a real senshi- it's entirely possible that she never gained her senshi form because A- there was no conflict that would require her to become one and B- Her mother was in possession of the Silver Crystal.

It's very possible that Serenity was never required to be a senshi, but still had a latent ability to do so. In Silver Millenium she didn't need to become one with the Inners and Queen Serenity protecting her- she simply needed to inherit the throne, no fighting or battle required. After her reincarnation, however, she's lost all of that protection and also was reunited with the Silver Crystal, even though it was hidden inside of her (or a fragment of it in the anime) Losing her guardians and her mother required her to awaken this ability.

Quote:
[*]Originally, the Sailor Moon Identity was a disguise to protect the Princess

Where are you getting this bit? I don't remember this being said in the manga or anime. I'm of the opinion that Sailor Moon has always had the ability to become a senshi, but she didn't need it in Silver Millenium, and so she never became one until she was reincarnated.
Quote:
*]All of Sailor Moon's powers come from items. Not a single attack is her own power.


I disagree with this. The silver crystal has always been within Sailor Moon, in one way or another- present within her body from the moment she was reincarnated (or in the anime, a fragment) or in a more accessible place within her transformation brooches. The Silver Crystal isn't an item that is disconnected from her, it's her Starseed/ Sailor Crystal- anything that comes from the SC is, by extension, coming from her.

Quote:
[*] Once her orginal locket is damaged or lost, it requires the Silver Crystal to continue transforming.


I'm of the opinion that her OG brooch is working on the power of the SC (or in the anime, a fragment of it), except it's within her body instead of inside of the later brooches.
Quote:
[*]The Silver Crystal had to Evolve into the Silver Moon Crystal to become her Sailor Crystal.

I'm not sure about this one. Is it explicitly stated that the Silver Crystal is not her Sailor Crystal until it evolves into the Silver Moon Crystal? I think it was always her Sailor Crystal, but eventually it evolved beyond it's original form throughout Sailor Moon's various battles and gained more power.

Quote:
[*]When she became Neo-Queen Serenity full time, she became unable to Transform into a Sailor Senshi. At this point the Silver Crystal returns to it's original state


I think it maintains it's evolved form even after her ascension, as it helped in the creation of Crystal Tokyo. Imo NQS is more powerful than Sailor Moon, so much so that she doesn't require the ability to transform and she loses the ability from disuse, not because she's lost her abilities.

I know it's called the Silver Crystal in the Black Moon arc but that's probably just a Naoko goof (probably didn't think of Stars that early) but even so, the timeline was significantly altered when Sailor Moon went to the future so, what you see of Crystal Tokyo in the Black Moon arc probably pales in comparison to what it becomes after the timeline has changed.

Quote:
[*] Chibi-usa gains the Silver Crystal, and the same things happen. It evolves into the Pink Moon Crystal, and she requires items to attack.

Chibi-usa complicates things because of the altered timeline and Naoko's inability to be consistent with the future.

First of all, the Crystal Tokyo scenes in volume 12 of the manga show the Inner senshi in their OG fukus and Pluto in her Super fuku, even though they'd evolved to Eternal fukus in the present. Did all of the senshi devolve or is the Crystal Tokyo that Chibiusa comes from, actually an alternate timeline- meaning that the Chibiusa in the new timeline will not have any of the experiences of the alternate one? How is NQS able to have all of her powers and abilities if she gave her Silver Crystal to Chibiusa, unless (in an unseen scenario) Chibiusa actually generates her own Silver Crystal after she goes back to the future?

The easiest theory to me is that NQS keeps her own Silver Crystal, Chibiusa generates her own (or something with the all of the alterations to the timeline caused there to be two Silver Crystals in the future, simultaneously) and Naoko is just really bad at keeping things consistent with her illustrations.

EASIER THEORY is that Naoko didn't bother to think about a set of rules for time travel in her story and left a bunch of plotholes for us to speculate about, tinfoil hats and all, and create our own personal canons.


Quote:
We're actually shown Queen Serenity going to the Galaxy Cauldron and taking "A small star" that is strongly implied to be The Silver crystal


Isn't that 'little star' also implied to be Princess Serenity? So they're one in the same, meaning that the Silver Crystal isn't just an item- it's Princess Serenity's crystal.

Personally my theory is that the Silver Crystal never belonged to Queen Serenity in the same way that it belongs to Sailor Moon. She may have had some ability to use it, but clearly despite her age, she wasn't very good at it. I think Princess Serenity was born with the Silver Crystal existing outside of her and since Queen Serenity is related to her in some way (whether it's that her energy was combined with something else and created the developing Silver Crystal/ Serenity, or that Queen Serenity simply found and nurtured the moon's Sailor Crystal) she was able to have some limited use over the Silver Crystal in order to protect Princess Serenity until she was mature enough to inherit the throne. So basically Queen Serenity was just guarding her daughter's kingdom until the real Queen could mature and take the throne.

I don't even think Queen Serenity is originally from the Moon, and thousands of years after she arrived there, The moon's Sailor Crystal started developing and she nurtured it by combining it with some of her energy/ whatever she did at the GC. Hell, maybe that's WHY she was there.

Notice how the crescent on her forehead is a tiara instead of a mark like Princess Serenity?

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Last edited by Serena-Hime on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:53 am 
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Good point Serena-Hime in the manga and Crystal the Silver Crystal was a part of Usagi and during that one scene where she cried the tear became the Silver Crystal. Even in the 90s anime I thought she carried a part of the Silver Crystal with her because when the Rainbow Crystals combined with Usagi's tear it became the Silver Crystal.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:22 am 
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This is just guesswork on my part, but I like to think that Princess Serenity had the potential to become Sailor Moon, but everybody hoped it wouldn't be necessary. It's sort of a last resort thing.

I also like to thin the entire Sailor Senshi thing was a bit of a last-ditch "what if things go as wrong as possible?" thing that, effectively, got rushed into action during the invasion of the moon, and then what they're doing in the present day is a fragmentary, underprepared mess, with the cats having grossly incomplete intel about what's even going on.

The cats have memory loss, the Sailor Senshi are awakening way too young, the Outers (except perhaps Pluto, who seems like she might've been guarding the space-time door since the Silver Millennium era) are stumbling into their powers on their own and coming to weird, sometimes treacherous conclusions (at least in the '90s anime)... and Earth almost gets destroyed how many times in a handful of years? They're neck-deep in the worst-case contingencies of Queen Serenity, is my guess. And that's why you get Sailor Moon and Sailor Chibi-Moon in such desperate situations. They've been red-lining everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Time Sage wrote:
Sailor Moon did not exist in the Silver Millennium

Maybe she did or was about to. It's the matter for speculation to me.
http://sailormoonforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30384&p=886666#p886666
Time Sage wrote:
Originally, the Sailor Moon Identity was a disguise to protect the Princess

Turn the Princess into a soldier and send her straight into combat? What a wise way to protect someone.
Time Sage wrote:
All of Sailor Moon's powers come from items. Not a single attack is her own power.

I don't think anyone else could use these items. It has been said many times that source of the power is Usagi herself.
Time Sage wrote:
Once her orginal locket is damaged or lost, it requires the Silver Crystal to continue transforming.

So what?
Time Sage wrote:
When she became Neo-Queen Serenity full time, she became unable to Transform into a Sailor Senshi. At this point the Silver Crystal returns to it's original state

What would be the point of that transformation? Neo Queen Serenity form is more powerful, I think. It was more like evolution. I remember Saturn saying that Eternal form is some kind of an intermediate between SM and NQS.
You might also mention that Moon's not a planet, if you wanted to make your post more scandalous.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:56 pm 
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1. She doesn't always use the Silver (Moon) Crystal to transform. She uses the Holy Grail / Holy Moon Calice to transform into Super Sailor Moon and Eternal Sailor Moon and, afaik, the Grail/Calice's power is not related to or dependent on the Silver (Moon) Crystal's, but I could be mistaken.

2. How do you explain Sailor Cosmos?

3. All the other Sailors are princesses of their respective home worlds, so there's no reason to assume that Princess Serenity couldn't also have become Sailor Moon had the opportunity/need ever arisen. Perhaps it just takes Moon Kingdom women longer to awaken their Sailor powers. Look at Chibiusa.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:49 pm 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Sailor Moon is definitely as much a Senshi as any other Senshi.


Maria, you make an excellent point. Sailor Moon is a Sailor Senshi, just not a planetary Senshi, hence her Super and Eternal uniforms.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:08 am 
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
1. She doesn't always use the Silver (Moon) Crystal to transform. She uses the Holy Grail / Holy Moon Calice to transform into Super Sailor Moon and Eternal Sailor Moon and, afaik, the Grail/Calice's power is not related to or dependent on the Silver (Moon) Crystal's, but I could be mistaken.

2. How do you explain Sailor Cosmos?


She uses those things to UPGRADE her Base form to Super and her Super Form to Eternal, but it's not the only thing used.

Sailor Cosmos very likely isn't Usagi but a future reincarnation of her.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:32 am 
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Time Sage wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:
1. She doesn't always use the Silver (Moon) Crystal to transform. She uses the Holy Grail / Holy Moon Calice to transform into Super Sailor Moon and Eternal Sailor Moon and, afaik, the Grail/Calice's power is not related to or dependent on the Silver (Moon) Crystal's, but I could be mistaken.

2. How do you explain Sailor Cosmos?


She uses those things to UPGRADE her Base form to Super and her Super Form to Eternal, but it's not the only thing used.

Sailor Cosmos very likely isn't Usagi but a future reincarnation of her.

But she is still Usagi even if she is a reincarnation of her. Besides that she could very well be Usagi. It is very possible that Chaos attacked Crystal Tokyo and that whatever happened resulted in Neo Queen Serenity gaining the ability to be Sailor Cosmos.

Again Sailor Moon is as much of a real Senshi as any other Senshi. All Senshi derive their power from their Sailor Crystals so Sailor Moon isn't special in that regard.

Also I have to disagree with your assertion on Moon Sparkling Sensation. It didn't look like to me that she used her brooch to generate the attack but rather her own inner power.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:46 am 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
But she is still Usagi even if she is a reincarnation of her. Besides that she could very well be Usagi. It is very possible that Chaos attacked Crystal Tokyo and that whatever happened resulted in Neo Queen Serenity gaining the ability to be Sailor Cosmos.


Usagi is Princess Serenity, but Princess Serenity is not Usagi. The two had slightly different personalities, shaped by the world they lived in. Even if Usagi reincarnated into a new form that became Sailor Comos, Usagi is not Sailor Cosmos, but Sailor Comos could be Usagi.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:54 am 
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Time Sage wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
But she is still Usagi even if she is a reincarnation of her. Besides that she could very well be Usagi. It is very possible that Chaos attacked Crystal Tokyo and that whatever happened resulted in Neo Queen Serenity gaining the ability to be Sailor Cosmos.


Usagi is Princess Serenity, but Princess Serenity is not Usagi. The two had slightly different personalities, shaped by the world they lived in. Even if Usagi reincarnated into a new form that became Sailor Comos, Usagi is not Sailor Cosmos, but Sailor Comos could be Usagi.

Actually Usagi and Princess Serenity are the same person. They have the same personalities etc. In the manga Princess Serenity was also shown to be a cry baby and had an immature personality and would sneak away to Earth instead of keeping to her lessons. So yes Princess Serenity and Usagi are the same person with the same personalities.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:07 am 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Time Sage wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
But she is still Usagi even if she is a reincarnation of her. Besides that she could very well be Usagi. It is very possible that Chaos attacked Crystal Tokyo and that whatever happened resulted in Neo Queen Serenity gaining the ability to be Sailor Cosmos.


Usagi is Princess Serenity, but Princess Serenity is not Usagi. The two had slightly different personalities, shaped by the world they lived in. Even if Usagi reincarnated into a new form that became Sailor Comos, Usagi is not Sailor Cosmos, but Sailor Comos could be Usagi.

Actually Usagi and Princess Serenity are the same person. They have the same personalities etc. In the manga Princess Serenity was also shown to be a cry baby and had an immature personality and would sneak away to Earth instead of keeping to her lessons. So yes Princess Serenity and Usagi are the same person with the same personalities.


I'm pretty sure they're just trying to get a rise out of you for fun :lol:

What they're saying is that Silver Millenium Princess Serenity is not Usagi- She's Princess Serenity, Usagi does not exist yet because Usagi is the identity she is reincarnated into. Usagi identity didn't exist in Silver Millenium, Silver Millenium Serenity isn't Usagi. Get what I mean? It can't go backwards. They're the same person essentially, but the Usagi identity didn't exist in Silver Millenium; it's a modern identity, and so it didn't exist in the past. If we were to go back in time, Princess Serenity wouldn't respond to the name Usagi, but Usagi would respond to either because she has both identities- Silver Millenium Serenity only had one.

Neo Queen Serenity would not respond to the name Sailor Cosmos, but Sailor Cosmos would respond to the name Neo Queen Serenity. But personally I think NQS gains the form of Cosmos without being reincarnated, given that she's essentially going to live forever.

Good job Time Sage, your post resulted in exactly what I think you planned it to be :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:20 am 
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Ok Serena-Hime that makes sense but what I was trying to say is that even if these identities did not exist yet the person of Usagi or Serenity or whatever you want to call her was the same in the past, present and future.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:41 am 
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Past present and future eh? Not possible. Usagi grew up being, Usagi. Then she gained all the memories of Serenity and knowlage of who Serenity was. She is now Serenity and Usagi. After all, you certainly don't expect Usagi to pull out a sword and kill herself upon losing Mamoru. She'd fight to get him back. She's a different person that's inherited the memories of a near, but not exactly, identical person.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:39 am 
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Time Sage wrote:
Past present and future eh? Not possible. Usagi grew up being, Usagi. Then she gained all the memories of Serenity and knowlage of who Serenity was. She is now Serenity and Usagi. After all, you certainly don't expect Usagi to pull out a sword and kill herself upon losing Mamoru. She'd fight to get him back. She's a different person that's inherited the memories of a near, but not exactly, identical person.

Actually she did just that in the manga. When present life Usagi as Sailor Moon was forced to kill a brainwashed Mamoru she then turned the sword on herself and killed herself.

Again in all of the Sailor Moon canons with the exception of PGSM Princess Serenity is the exact same person as Usagi with the same personality.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:55 am 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Time Sage wrote:
Past present and future eh? Not possible. Usagi grew up being, Usagi. Then she gained all the memories of Serenity and knowlage of who Serenity was. She is now Serenity and Usagi. After all, you certainly don't expect Usagi to pull out a sword and kill herself upon losing Mamoru. She'd fight to get him back. She's a different person that's inherited the memories of a near, but not exactly, identical person.

Actually she did just that in the manga. When present life Usagi as Sailor Moon was forced to kill a brainwashed Mamoru she then turned the sword on herself and killed herself.

Again in all of the Sailor Moon canons with the exception of PGSM Princess Serenity is the exact same person as Usagi with the same personality.


I agree with Time Sage on this one. It's pretty inaccurate to say that a normal person is exactly the same throughout their life, even moreso if that person was born as a Princess in an ancient kingdom on the moon with no experience as a Sailor Guardian, died, was reincarnated into present-day Japan, awakened as a Sailor Guardian and gained experience as one, regained their past memories, fought numerous battles, got married and had a child and became the Matriarch of the Earth.

The basic answer is ''People grow and change''. Sure Usagi maintains her basic personality traits but they develop, change and grow with new experiences and exposure to different sets of circumstances. Stars arc Sailor Moon isn't exactly the same as Classic arc Sailor Moon, just like episode one Sailor Moon isn't the same as Classic finale Sailor Moon because people grow and change as they develop as people/characters.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:51 pm 
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So, if Sailor Moon is a fake Sailor Senshi, then Zoisite was a fake of fake sailor senshi... and so was Sailor Venus disguised as Sailor Moon :D

...I'd like to believe that if there were to be just one sailor senshi, it'd be Sailor Moon...
She's 100% real, not fake. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:06 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Two things I found interesting about reading this thread. The first is disturbing and doesn't involve SM but the fact that Pluto has been stuck at the Space-Time door for so long. It breaks my heart....

Second, if SM has a Senshi form, I wonder if Princess Fireball has one as well? She is very similar to SM and it makes me wonder if she has a fuku to change into also.


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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Two things I found interesting about reading this thread. The first is disturbing and doesn't involve SM but the fact that Pluto has been stuck at the Space-Time door for so long. It breaks my heart....

Second, if SM has a Senshi form, I wonder if Princess Fireball has one as well? She is very similar to SM and it makes me wonder if she has a fuku to change into also.


You mean princess Kakyuu? Manga has her as Sailor Kakyuu

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I've always found it odd she wasn't Sailor Kinmoku

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Last edited by Time Sage on Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Second, if SM has a Senshi form, I wonder if Princess Fireball has one as well? She is very similar to SM and it makes me wonder if she has a fuku to change into also.


Depends if she magically crafted one. She was hiding the whole time inside her incense burner in Stars and didn't bother transforming. Or she left all her magical items in her planet.

Unlike Queen Serenity or her predecessors she/they made so many of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:03 pm 
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Yup Time Sage in the manga Princess Kakyuu did become Sailor Kakyuu. Also I too found it rather odd that she did not become Sailor Kinmoku as she seems like the other Senshi who's name is different from the celestial object she represents.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:45 pm 
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So that means we'll be seeing her in the Stars movie then. Interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:35 am 
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Time Sage wrote:
Sailor Kakyuu

It's a shame she wasn't in the Stars Anime in that form. But that also gets me wondering, would she have a male civilian form then, too...?

Quote:
I've always found it odd she wasn't Sailor Kinmoku

Yeah, that would've made a lot of sense.

Hmm... you know, for fanfiction purposes, I've been kind of treating "the anime didn't address that" as an open invitation to not just plug in manga concepts where they fit, but to reimagine manga concepts (preferably based around established facts in the anime canon). So you could totally have her transform into 'Sailor Kinmoku' in an anime continuity-based fanfic. :) Or claim the planet is named 'Kakyuu' (they never say the planet's name in the anime). Or claim 'Kakyuu' is one of it's moons, but that seems less likely (there's three moons after all). I'd probably just go with 'Sailor Kinmoku' if I were doing this, but I haven't written anything about her transforming yet.

Star Angel Haruki wrote:
the fact that Pluto has been stuck at the Space-Time door for so long. It breaks my heart....

Regarding exactly how long Pluto was there... they are a little vague on that point as far as I can tell, but nobody ever mentions the door having gone unguarded or her needing to awaken. She does have a civilian form as Setsuna Meiou, but I kinda wonder if that's something she adopted (not unlike Masato Sanjoin, except less ridiculous) rather than something she was born into. There's a bit of guesswork, but they do imply she's sort of always been guarding the door, and she seems like the one person who might've survived the fall of Silver Millennium.

I think that would go a long way towards explaining that quiet, sad smile thing she has going on, and how distant she seems.

The Manga takes extra steps to imply this, by showing a scene where Queen Serenity tells her the laws of time when she's young (which include keeping the door guarded)... and then we see her as very much an adult. When Chibi-usa goes to meet her. That definitely makes it seem like she's been there the whole time, to me.

Poor Sailor Pluto. :ohdear:

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Mitsukara wrote:
Time Sage wrote:
Sailor Kakyuu

It's a shame she wasn't in the Stars Anime in that form. But that also gets me wondering, would she have a male civilian form then, too...?

Quote:
I've always found it odd she wasn't Sailor Kinmoku

Yeah, that would've made a lot of sense.

Hmm... you know, for fanfiction purposes, I've been kind of treating "the anime didn't address that" as an open invitation to not just plug in manga concepts where they fit, but to reimagine manga concepts (preferably based around established facts in the anime canon). So you could totally have her transform into 'Sailor Kinmoku' in an anime continuity-based fanfic. :) Or claim the planet is named 'Kakyuu' (they never say the planet's name in the anime). Or claim 'Kakyuu' is one of it's moons, but that seems less likely (there's three moons after all). I'd probably just go with 'Sailor Kinmoku' if I were doing this, but I haven't written anything about her transforming yet.

Star Angel Haruki wrote:
the fact that Pluto has been stuck at the Space-Time door for so long. It breaks my heart....

Regarding exactly how long Pluto was there... they are a little vague on that point as far as I can tell, but nobody ever mentions the door having gone unguarded or her needing to awaken. She does have a civilian form as Setsuna Meiou, but I kinda wonder if that's something she adopted (not unlike Masato Sanjoin, except less ridiculous) rather than something she was born into. There's a bit of guesswork, but they do imply she's sort of always been guarding the door, and she seems like the one person who might've survived the fall of Silver Millennium.

I think that would go a long way towards explaining that quiet, sad smile thing she has going on, and how distant she seems.

The Manga takes extra steps to imply this, by showing a scene where Queen Serenity tells her the laws of time when she's young (which include keeping the door guarded)... and then we see her as very much an adult. When Chibi-usa goes to meet her. That definitely makes it seem like she's been there the whole time, to me.

Poor Sailor Pluto. :ohdear:


Pluto's timeline is a bit complex. Going by the Manga, she first guards the door as a child, up until the fall of the Moon Kingdom. She gathers with the other three outers, Saturn is revived, Neptune and Uranus die along with any remains of the moon kingdom and Pluto apperntly goes back to guarding the door. Flash forward thousands of years, she meets Chibi-Usa and the events of the Black Moon arc happen. Pluto leaves the door at the behest of Diana, who watches it in her place, and ends up dieing, and thus snapping Black Lady back to her senses and out of her brainwashing. Cue the rescued Neo-Queen serenity using her powers to re-incarnate Pluto as Setsuna Meioh in the past alongside the other Senshi, freeing her from her bonds and allowing her to work alongside them for the remaining story arcs...


Did you get all that?

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:59 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Exactly what powers does Diana have in the manga that enables her to guard the door from dangerous enemies? The anime really never gave her anything toy knowledge.


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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:36 pm 
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I'm not even sure Diana has powers really, beyond a humanoid form. Its more like she had to plead with Pluto to break Da Rules, and offering to take her place was a last ditch attempt to get her to go help the senshi.

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 Post subject: Re: Head Canon: Sailor Moon isn't a real Sailor Senshi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:45 pm 
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I'm certain she could yowl and swat adorably. :)

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