Genvid & Dies Gaudii Forums

International Sailor Moon Online Community

* FAQ    * Search   * Login 
* Rss  * Register
It is currently Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:50 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:01 am 
Luna Crescens
Luna Crescens
Months of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membership
Joined: Nov 10, 2016
Posts: 131
For example: Usagi and Mamoru, Michiru and Haruka, Naru and Nephrite, Kunzite and Zoisite, and Rei and Yuichiro. Is there a certain thing you like about them? A certain thing you dislike? A flaw that you noticed they have.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:05 am 
Usagi's Rose
Usagi's Rose
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 13, 2008
Posts: 22557
Location: in my Aesthetic
Gender: Male
Other: Enjoy Yourself
I'll start with the dislikes :

1- Usagi x Chiba - particularly in the 90s anime - I hate them together but I've explained my reason more times than I can count
for the record I'm fine with/don't care about the other versions it's all fine and dandy but when it comes to the 90s anime
well I'll let an old quote of mine explain within the canon my feelings somewhat - tip of the ice really but still

Quote:
I hate the break up arc in R because it was pointless, a dumb test by king lavender geez if you doubt she loves you or that you doubt your love for her after all these years then maybe she's not the one for you mister 2098 face, not to mention the stupid timing, really, right after they've gotten back together, first Beryl killed them in the moon, being reincarnated with no memory, finally remember who they were but just then having chiba kidnapped and brainwashed in Classic then only for chiba to die after being healed and memories back, Usagi makes her wish and boom the memory loss again now in the Ali-En arc yadda yadda yadda moonlight knight (which was an impovement to his character wish he stuck around in that form) takes his place until his memory returns officially. now things were finally hunky-dory in chiba x usa loveydovey land, until a new enemy appears as well as a mysterious child that the enemy is after after aka your own kid mr. I'm king of earth in the 30th century, god help us, this time could have been perfect for the two of them to take care of Chibiusa and learn how to raise a child thus making them get closer as a couple plus more focus on dealing with the enemy without the unnecessary distraction of these two suddenly breaking up the way they suddenly got together in the first place. And future king endymoron picks this chaotic time to test their love? I would never do that. Stupid stupid stupid plan, making poor Usagi suffer like that all to see if your love can withstand the test of forced separation by sending dreams to your past self right after getting your first chance to be together. They also could have ended it in the sleeping beauty episode but nooooo it had to continue like we need Usagi to suffer more, sure chiba was suffering too but what do expect from the same nightmare night after night with King Freddy Krueger invading your mind showing Usagi dying? Lover or not nobody wants to see the person you protect every day getting killed in a dream. And I'm not buying that miracle romance hogwash either, only after the Crystal appears and identities discovered and that whole zoi stab thing do they fall for one another, sure they warmed up to each other leading up to that but that was just going from acquaintance to friends, as far as that in the anime version is concerned Chiba only cares for Usagi because she was once Princess Serenity, obligated by "destiny" to be with her with the past sending him dreams forcing him to find the princess and the knowledge of crystal tokyo/chibiusa existing in the future forces him to stay with her plus protecting the world and that's it. Serenity could have been anyone and what if it were say... Minako? Chiba and Usagi would never be a couple in the anime if that was the case, I can see them as friends maybe but lover's? Not if you take Usagi being Serenity out if the equation. As for Usagi crushing on tux ha! Just a school girl infatuation, she's does the same with Motoki, the only difference is the rescuing honestly I wish Motoki was tuxedo or anyone else for that matter, anyone but this guy.


Of course the manga/PGSM is different, their friendship/relationship develops before identities are known which is the better way to do it if you ask me and there was no stupid break up arc.


2- Chibiusa's creepy obsession/infatuation with Chiba - in the show it's played off as her being cute or a silly moment to annoy Usagi and such but this shtick continues after R when she knows cape boy is her dad yet still does it and I find it just weird I never liked it

3 - Chibiusa and Helios as Pegasus she was willing to fall for a horse AND KISS IT before she found out about his human form sure it's within a dream but :grey: ewwwww
it's ok when he's in Helios form but not as Pegasus


4 - senshi x shittenou - I hated the concept long before crystal came out, I'm fine with it if it's within the past but after the reincarnation of the senshi and with them working for the dark kingdom eh it's time to see other people - if you make "miracle Romance" available for everyone then it's not much of a miracle now is it more like no matter what it'll happen if it's assured then it ruins the romantic intention of miracle romance and becomes forced :| Usagi and Chiba felt forced to begin with don't drag the inners into the same fate.

Likes:

1 Chibiusa and Hotaru - in S chibiusa really shined when she befriended Hotaru and I loved this side of her character much better than her bickering with Usagi and acting all brat-ish all the time

2 Rei and Usagi - this is how you do two characters who bicker yet care a great deal for each other done right

3 Haruka and Michiru - best canon pair plain and simple

4 Naru and Nephrite - lots of chemistry especially when he warmed up to her at the end - tragic yet I love them together

5 Kunzite and Zoisite - I'm normally not into yaoi but I ship the heck out of these two seeing either with anyone else feels alien to me same with Haruka and Michiru


that's as far as I'm going for now

_________________
Image
Saint Pepsi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:08 am 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4228
Prince Rose wrote:
I'll start with the dislikes :

1- Usagi x Chiba - particularly in the 90s anime - I hate them together but I've explained my reason more times than I can count
for the record I'm fine with/don't care about the other versions it's all fine and dandy but when it comes to the 90s anime
well I'll let an old quote of mine explain within the canon my feelings somewhat - tip of the ice really but still

Quote:
I hate the break up arc in R because it was pointless, a dumb test by king lavender geez if you doubt she loves you or that you doubt your love for her after all these years then maybe she's not the one for you mister 2098 face, not to mention the stupid timing, really, right after they've gotten back together, first Beryl killed them in the moon, being reincarnated with no memory, finally remember who they were but just then having chiba kidnapped and brainwashed in Classic then only for chiba to die after being healed and memories back, Usagi makes her wish and boom the memory loss again now in the Ali-En arc yadda yadda yadda moonlight knight (which was an impovement to his character wish he stuck around in that form) takes his place until his memory returns officially. now things were finally hunky-dory in chiba x usa loveydovey land, until a new enemy appears as well as a mysterious child that the enemy is after after aka your own kid mr. I'm king of earth in the 30th century, god help us, this time could have been perfect for the two of them to take care of Chibiusa and learn how to raise a child thus making them get closer as a couple plus more focus on dealing with the enemy without the unnecessary distraction of these two suddenly breaking up the way they suddenly got together in the first place. And future king endymoron picks this chaotic time to test their love? I would never do that. Stupid stupid stupid plan, making poor Usagi suffer like that all to see if your love can withstand the test of forced separation by sending dreams to your past self right after getting your first chance to be together. They also could have ended it in the sleeping beauty episode but nooooo it had to continue like we need Usagi to suffer more, sure chiba was suffering too but what do expect from the same nightmare night after night with King Freddy Krueger invading your mind showing Usagi dying? Lover or not nobody wants to see the person you protect every day getting killed in a dream. And I'm not buying that miracle romance hogwash either, only after the Crystal appears and identities discovered and that whole zoi stab thing do they fall for one another, sure they warmed up to each other leading up to that but that was just going from acquaintance to friends, as far as that in the anime version is concerned Chiba only cares for Usagi because she was once Princess Serenity, obligated by "destiny" to be with her with the past sending him dreams forcing him to find the princess and the knowledge of crystal tokyo/chibiusa existing in the future forces him to stay with her plus protecting the world and that's it. Serenity could have been anyone and what if it were say... Minako? Chiba and Usagi would never be a couple in the anime if that was the case, I can see them as friends maybe but lover's? Not if you take Usagi being Serenity out if the equation. As for Usagi crushing on tux ha! Just a school girl infatuation, she's does the same with Motoki, the only difference is the rescuing honestly I wish Motoki was tuxedo or anyone else for that matter, anyone but this guy.


Of course the manga/PGSM is different, their friendship/relationship develops before identities are known which is the better way to do it if you ask me and there was no stupid break up arc.


2- Chibiusa's creepy obsession/infatuation with Chiba - in the show it's played off as her being cute or a silly moment to annoy Usagi and such but this shtick continues after R when she knows cape boy is her dad yet still does it and I find it just weird I never liked it

3 - Chibiusa and Helios as Pegasus she was willing to fall for a horse AND KISS IT before she found out about his human form sure it's within a dream but :grey: ewwwww
it's ok when he's in Helios form but not as Pegasus


4 - senshi x shittenou - I hated the concept long before crystal came out, I'm fine with it if it's within the past but after the reincarnation of the senshi and with them working for the dark kingdom eh it's time to see other people - if you make "miracle Romance" available for everyone then it's not much of a miracle now is it more like no matter what it'll happen if it's assured then it ruins the romantic intention of miracle romance and becomes forced :| Usagi and Chiba felt forced to begin with don't drag the inners into the same fate.

Likes:

1 Chibiusa and Hotaru - in S chibiusa really shined when she befriended Hotaru and I loved this side of her character much better than her bickering with Usagi and acting all brat-ish all the time

2 Rei and Usagi - this is how you do two characters who bicker yet care a great deal for each other done right

3 Haruka and Michiru - best canon pair plain and simple

4 Naru and Nephrite - lots of chemistry especially when he warmed up to her at the end - tragic yet I love them together

5 Kunzite and Zoisite - I'm normally not into yaoi but I ship the heck out of these two seeing either with anyone else feels alien to me same with Haruka and Michiru


that's as far as I'm going for now

Actually Rose as I have stated before in Classic the two do warm up to each other and become more friendly with each other. The two were also shown to definitely be attracted to one another but being too immature to address their feelings which manifests as teasing. Heck Usagi even followed Mamoru and Rei around on their date because she was so jealous of Mamoru being with Rei. Also in their guises of Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask the two definitely showed interest in each other. Further more in the Makaiju are they became closer without the aid of memories. As for the breakup arc yes it was stupid and bad writing but King Endymion did not do this for malicious reasons. I heard from someone on this forum their theory that he did this to get them to focus on Chibiusa and use their love to help her in the Black Lady fight. Yes the writing was stupid but again he did it for good reasons.

Also you are completely wrong that he only cares for Usagi because he reminds her of Princess Serenity. The fact that the two became closer in the Makaiju arc without their memories is proof of this. Also Mamoru shows his love for Usagi. He has told Usagi that it feels wonderful being with her and it was Usagi who helped Mamoru come out of his repressed socially awkward shell. Plus both Usagi and Mamoru have said in the series that they are not with each other because of their past lie but because they love each other. If Mamoru really did not love Usagi and did not have feelings for her he could have basically decided the two could be friends and nothing more. However both Mamoru and Usagi have shown their love for one another. Plus it is rather foolish to say that he only loves her because she was once Princess Serenity because Princess Serenity and Usagi in all canons beside PGSM have the same personality and are the same person. So if they fell in love with each other in the past given they had the same personalities and are the same person it makes sense they would fall in love now as again they are the same people.

Also Usagi's love for Tuxedo Mask was more then a school girl crush they were shown as having genuine feelings for one another like the scene at the ball with Princess Dia that went beyond Usagi's school girl crush on Motoki or any other guy. I think you are letting your jealousy cloud your views. LOL!

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:18 pm 
Gurges Ater
Gurges Ater
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 9985
Location: Embelyon
Cierra Moon wrote:
A certain thing you dislike? A flaw that you noticed they have.

Not enough yuri.

_________________
Image
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... shoujocity
iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shoujo- ... 1128360282


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:31 am 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4228
As for me what I think is as follows.

For Usagi/Mamoru I absolutely love them I think they are a beautiful couple and really balance each other out. Usagi's fun and outgoing side balances out Mamoru's more reserved and stoic side and the two really bring out the best in each other. I love their Miracle Romance.

As for Nephrite/Naru I like them and I thought they had a really good albeit tragic relationship.

For Naru/Umino I actually like them better then Naru/Nephrite. I thought that Umino's devotion to Naru was so sweet and endearing.

For Zoisite/Kunzite I loved their pairing. Their love for one another was a sympathizing element and the two treated each other like gold.

For Senshi/Shitennou honestly I don't like these pairings. For one reason I am a Zoisite/Kunzite fan but I also think it is odd for in the Silver Millennium the Inners to criticize Princess Serenity for her romance with Prince Endymion when they are doing the same thing. Likewise I think it is foolish for the Shitennou to have a problem with Endymion's romance with Serenity and feel that she is only with him to take over the Golden Kingdom as Beryl lead them to believe when they too are romancing Serenity's Four Guardian Senshi.

Ami/Urawa I love this pairing and I thought the two were a great match for one another. They were both academically inclined and showed great interest for each other. Urawa is my favorite match for Ami.

Rei/Yuuichirou. I love them together as well. Yuuichirou's devotion to Rei and his comedic fumbles were genuinely endearing. I think he is the best match for Rei and Rei clearly shows interest in him.

Makoto/Shinozaki I liked them but would have liked more if Makoto showed more romantic interest in him but I think they are a good pair.

Makoto/Asanuma I love Makoto and Ittou I loved their scenes in the manga. I loved he found out Makoto's identity and I loved that they had such great chemistry. Honestly he is my favorite match for Makoto.

Minako/Ace I tend to prefer him with Minako however I think that their relationship was poorly executed and the resolution made absolutely no sense what so ever. On one hand Minako says she loves him next she pushes him away saying this isn't the person she is supposed to protect as if she can't protect both him and Princess Serenity. Heck he could protect Usagi with her. If Haruka and Michiru can be in a committed relationship and still protect Usagi then so can the other Senshi and if their lovers can fight then they can protect Usagi as well. Further more the ending was ridiculous it was basically we love each other but we have to fight because we can't be together even though nothing was stopping them other then the stupid writing of Naoko Takeuchi that pretty much all of Usagi's Senshi other then Haruka and Michiru have to be forever alone.


Haruka/Michiru I absolutely love them together. They definitely were one of the reasons why S was such a good season. They are so suave and elegant and each balance each other out. Haruka is more brash, Michiru is more calm and wise. They are an intoxicating pairing.

Kenji/Ikuko. I love Usagi's parents together. They are definitely devoted to each other and I love that Ikuko of all of them tends to be in charge.

Shingo/Mika Kayama. I thought their relationship was very cute in the series. I really hoped to see more of them.

Motoki/Reika honestly I think that Reika is the best match for Motoki you can tell that they genuinely love each other and the fact that their relationship has been able to survive long distance is proof of how much they love each other

Al/En I liked their relationship. They were rather unfaithful to one another but their love for each other still shown and I liked that in the end the two fully became devoted to one another and went off to raise up the Makaiju on another planet.

Koan/Rubeus. Really hate this one. Koan was devoted to him but Rubeus was only using her and was quite abusive.

Saphir/Petz I liked their relationship together. It was unexpected but the two definitely seemed to care for one another it was a shame it ended so tragically.

Demand/Esmeraude I liked their relationship. Esmeraude definitely was devoted to him and it is a shame Demand couldn't be interested in her instead and quit his obsession with Usagi.

Demand/Saphir I like this relationship. In the 90s anime there was this one scene were Esmeraude was talking to Saphir and she said that she resented Neo Queen Serenity for taking up Demand's heart and how she wanted to be with him. Oddly enough Saphir said that he shared her feelings about his brother making me believe he might have feelings for Demand.

Demand/Usagi I absolutely hate this pairing. I have no idea why it is popular especially since Demand basically attempted to rape Usagi.

Seiya/Usagi. I hate this pairing as well. Seiya kept pursuing Usagi even though she kept telling her that she was not interested in her. Plus it is pretty much confirmed that Seiya mainly loved Usagi because she reminder her of Princess Kakyuu whom she was also in love with.

Yaten/Minako. Again Minako did have interest in Yaten but after she found out that Yaten was truly a girl Minako herself admitted that she lost interest in her. Plus I don't think that Yaten is honestly attracted to women either based on her dismissal of Minako and even Noriko Okamachi thought that Yaten was not attracted to women.

Ami/Taiki I am neutral on this one. While I don't hate it I am not or it either. Ultimate it would have to depend on Ami's sexuality and if she could be attracted to Taiki in her true form. However they were very much academically inclined and began to respect each other's intelligence. However still I think that Ryo Urawa is a better match for Ami.

Makoto/Taiki Honestly I think that they are a better match the Ami and Taiki. Both seemed to enjoy each other's company and had more chemistry with one another. Plus some think that Makoto might swing both ways. Still I prefer her with Ittou Asanuma.

Aluminum Seiren/Lead Crow. I absolutely love this pairing. I loved how ditzy yet polite Seiren was and how Lead Crow was her no nonsense protector. Plus when Sailor Lead Crow died by being sucked in the Black Hole her last thoughts were of Sailor Aluminum Seiren which made me harken to Kunzite's death when he stated that he will be joining Zoisite.

Those are all I can think of for now.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:31 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 992
Location: New York
Gender: Male
As a gay guy, I dislike Zoisite/Kunzite because it plays into too many stereotypes for my taste.

Nephrite/Naru is disgusting.

I really like Usagi/Mamoru in the manga -- not so much the 90s anime.

I don't like seeing the Inners with anyone other than one another because they've stated multiple times that their "true mission" is to protect Usagi at the cost of their own relationships with others. I just think that's the most "true to the story" interpretation. That said, this only applies to the manga, because they don't state this in other versions of the story. In PGSM, Rei/Minako is amazing.

Haruka/Michiru reigns supreme, of course.

_________________
Check out my Sera Myu (Sailor Moon musical) review thread! Soon to be updated. :)

#BlueLivesMatter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:46 pm 
Planeta
Planeta
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Posts: 3258
Gender: male
Other: CLAMP PR
John wrote:
As a gay guy, I dislike Zoisite/Kunzite because it plays into too many stereotypes for my taste.


I feel the same about Zoisite/Kunzite. All gay males shown in "Sailor Moon" are stereotyped.

_________________
Visit Clow's shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:58 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
Lumen Cinereum
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Posts: 437
Gender: Male
John wrote:

I don't like seeing the Inners with anyone other than one another because they've stated multiple times that their "true mission" is to protect Usagi at the cost of their own relationships with others. I just think that's the most "true to the story" interpretation. That said, this only applies to the manga, because they don't state this in other versions of the story. In PGSM, Rei/Minako is amazing.



And if they're simply not lesbians and want relationships? The 90's anime is the biggest proof of this. A mission may mean your dreams are delayed but not gone forever, including romance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:58 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 992
Location: New York
Gender: Male
doctorwho29 wrote:
John wrote:

I don't like seeing the Inners with anyone other than one another because they've stated multiple times that their "true mission" is to protect Usagi at the cost of their own relationships with others. I just think that's the most "true to the story" interpretation. That said, this only applies to the manga, because they don't state this in other versions of the story. In PGSM, Rei/Minako is amazing.



And if they're simply not lesbians and want relationships? The 90's anime is the biggest proof of this. A mission may mean your dreams are delayed but not gone forever, including romance.


You misunderstood me.

They DON'T want relationships -- at least not in the manga, which is what I was referring to. Rei and Minako make this very clear in the Stars arc. Or if they do want relationships, they know that they will always place Usagi first.

_________________
Check out my Sera Myu (Sailor Moon musical) review thread! Soon to be updated. :)

#BlueLivesMatter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:19 pm 
Planeta
Planeta
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Posts: 3258
Gender: male
Other: CLAMP PR
The ending of the Sailor V manga implied that Minako would never have love in her life; instead, she would spend her lifetime fighting and protecting Usagi.

_________________
Visit Clow's shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:30 pm 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37233
Gender: Male
Clow wrote:
The ending of the Sailor V manga implied that Minako would never have love in her life; instead, she would spend her lifetime fighting and protecting Usagi.

I've always thought that's an eternal curse on her, & an ironic one too. :(

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop thread


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:53 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
Lumen Cinereum
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Posts: 437
Gender: Male
Well I still hope for certain relationships like Ami/Urawa and Rei/Yuuichiro


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:32 pm 
Usagi's Rose
Usagi's Rose
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 13, 2008
Posts: 22557
Location: in my Aesthetic
Gender: Male
Other: Enjoy Yourself
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Clow wrote:
The ending of the Sailor V manga implied that Minako would never have love in her life; instead, she would spend her lifetime fighting and protecting Usagi.

I've always thought that's an eternal curse on her, & an ironic one too. :(

Pluto is worse having to guard the corridor of time only leaving when major threat appears
at least minako can date for a little bit

_________________
Image
Saint Pepsi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:15 pm 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37233
Gender: Male
Prince Rose wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Clow wrote:
The ending of the Sailor V manga implied that Minako would never have love in her life; instead, she would spend her lifetime fighting and protecting Usagi.

I've always thought that's an eternal curse on her, & an ironic one too. :(

Pluto is worse having to guard the corridor of time only leaving when major threat appears
at least minako can date for a little bit

Yeah, her case is even worse - that duty, which isn't much different from a life jail, must be her punishment (as well as a preventive measure) by the Princess for her harboring feelings for Endymion. :lol:

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop thread


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:20 am 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4228
John wrote:
As a gay guy, I dislike Zoisite/Kunzite because it plays into too many stereotypes for my taste.

Nephrite/Naru is disgusting.

I really like Usagi/Mamoru in the manga -- not so much the 90s anime.

I don't like seeing the Inners with anyone other than one another because they've stated multiple times that their "true mission" is to protect Usagi at the cost of their own relationships with others. I just think that's the most "true to the story" interpretation. That said, this only applies to the manga, because they don't state this in other versions of the story. In PGSM, Rei/Minako is amazing.

Haruka/Michiru reigns supreme, of course.

I don't think Zoisite and Kunzite plays into stereotypes. I mean yes they are a masculine and femme pairing but so was Haruka and Michiru. However Zoisite and Kunzite were shown to be incredibly devoted to each other and loved each other dearly.

Next I don't see how Nephrite and Naru are disgusting both had a tragic love for one another and if the complaints are with the age difference then that is foolish as again Naru is ready for romantic relationships as she is a teenager.

Also I honestly don't see the difference between Usagi and Mamoru in the manga vs 90s anime. People make too big if a deal about their age difference but again as I stated before age means nothing in love. Plus Usagi and Mamoru are the same age in all canons. In Classic and R and by extension the Dark Kingdom and Black Moon arc Usagi is 14 years old and in the 8th grade in all canons. However Mamoru in all canons is 17 in these seasons/arcs. The only difference is in the manga and Crystal he is in his last year of high school. Where as in the 90s anime he is in his first year of college. However in S and the Mugen arc Usagi is 15 and in the 9th grade and Mamoru in all canons is 18 and in College so people who act like their age difference is somehow "better" in the manga and Crystal don't know what they are talking about.

Also I personally found the whole idea of the Senshi being forever alone and not being able to have both relationships and protect their Princess to be foolish and even contradictory. For one Haruka and Michiru show that they can indeed have relationships with one another and still be devoted to their Princess. I don't see why the other Senshi can't do the same thing.

I will say this in the manga and Crystal atleast Makoto was shown to have a seemingly budding romance with Asanuma. I would love if this was more explored.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:47 am 
Luna Nova
Luna Nova
Months of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membership
Joined: Mar 03, 2017
Posts: 33
I am one of those weird people that thought Usagi and Mamoru were at there best when they were immature and bickering that was at least fun to watch once they became like a legitimate couple with no more obstacles in their way Mamoru became really boring and I think the spark between them was completely dead.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:23 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 992
Location: New York
Gender: Male
MariaTenebre wrote:
John wrote:
As a gay guy, I dislike Zoisite/Kunzite because it plays into too many stereotypes for my taste.

Nephrite/Naru is disgusting.

I really like Usagi/Mamoru in the manga -- not so much the 90s anime.

I don't like seeing the Inners with anyone other than one another because they've stated multiple times that their "true mission" is to protect Usagi at the cost of their own relationships with others. I just think that's the most "true to the story" interpretation. That said, this only applies to the manga, because they don't state this in other versions of the story. In PGSM, Rei/Minako is amazing.

Haruka/Michiru reigns supreme, of course.

I don't think Zoisite and Kunzite plays into stereotypes. I mean yes they are a masculine and femme pairing but so was Haruka and Michiru. However Zoisite and Kunzite were shown to be incredibly devoted to each other and loved each other dearly.

Next I don't see how Nephrite and Naru are disgusting both had a tragic love for one another and if the complaints are with the age difference then that is foolish as again Naru is ready for romantic relationships as she is a teenager.


Kunzite and Zoisite play into negative stereotypes for gay male characters in the 90s anime: they're villains, they both get killed off, and Zoisite in particular is offensive to feminine gay men. If you're not a gay man then maybe you should step off a bit here, you're entitled to your opinions but please let the gay men speak for themselves when it comes to what we find offensive vs. what we don't (and I'm sure other gay men don't find Zoisite and Kunzite offensive, and that's fine for those guys).

Age differences matter, Maria. They absolutely matter when there are minors involved. And that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

Naru as a teenager is ready for a romantic relationship with one of her peers. Nephrite isn't one of her peers. He's evil and put lots of people in danger multiple times. Yes, he does "turn good" very quickly near the end of his life, but he doesn't do much to redeem himself. Naru and Nephrite did not know each other very well. They were not in love with one another.

They were in lust with one another.

Naru was in love with a lying, evil man and he died protecting her before he could start to redeem himself as a character. Such a horrible story -- and it's so insulting for Naru as well. Thankfully she gets a better romance with Umino.

_________________
Check out my Sera Myu (Sailor Moon musical) review thread! Soon to be updated. :)

#BlueLivesMatter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:40 pm 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Aug 27, 2012
Posts: 4993
Location: "Studying" With Ami-Chan!
Gender: Male
Other: Married To NQS!
^^^how in the blue hell could Nephrite redeem himself when he got killed? also I liked Zoisite and Kunzite as a couple because I'm all for diversity and I don't see them as stereotypes as Zoisite was a capable fighter (not a very brave one but still) and besides as Maria stated to call them Stereotypes you'd have to say the same about Michiru and Haruka as they were the same ☹ thing just female

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:58 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 992
Location: New York
Gender: Male
Ryo Urawa wrote:
^^^how in the blue hell could Nephrite redeem himself when he got killed? also I liked Zoisite and Kunzite as a couple because I'm all for diversity and I don't see them as stereotypes as Zoisite was a capable fighter (not a very brave one but still) and besides as Maria stated to call them Stereotypes you'd have to say the same about Michiru and Haruka as they were the same ☹ thing just female


That's what I'm saying...he didn't get a chance to redeem himself, they just killed him off and left it at that. The writers didn't bother trying to redeem him.

Haruka and Michiru are NOT the same thing...they're heroes (so they're not portrayed as villains) and they don't die -- at least not permanent deaths, which are the ones that count. Though maybe some lesbians out there feel differently about them. If anything you can say they're anti-heroes, sort of, but they're definitely not villainous.

It doesn't matter if Zoisite was a capable fighter -- he was depicted as incredibly feminine and a villain. That is a trope for gay men in film and television going back decades. That's undeniable.

_________________
Check out my Sera Myu (Sailor Moon musical) review thread! Soon to be updated. :)

#BlueLivesMatter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:03 pm 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Aug 27, 2012
Posts: 4993
Location: "Studying" With Ami-Chan!
Gender: Male
Other: Married To NQS!
John wrote:
Ryo Urawa wrote:
^^^how in the blue hell could Nephrite redeem himself when he got killed? also I liked Zoisite and Kunzite as a couple because I'm all for diversity and I don't see them as stereotypes as Zoisite was a capable fighter (not a very brave one but still) and besides as Maria stated to call them Stereotypes you'd have to say the same about Michiru and Haruka as they were the same ☹ thing just female


That's what I'm saying...he didn't get a chance to redeem himself, they just killed him off and left it at that. The writers didn't bother trying to redeem him.

Haruka and Michiru are NOT the same thing...they're heroes (so they're not portrayed as villains) and they don't die -- at least not permanent deaths, which are the ones that count. Though maybe some lesbians out there feel differently about them. If anything you can say they're anti-heroes, sort of, but they're definitely not villainous.

It doesn't matter if Zoisite was a capable fighter -- he was depicted as incredibly feminine and a villain. That is a trope for gay men in film and television going back decades. That's undeniable.


^^lots of gay guys are feminine there's nothing wrong with that and just because Haruka and Michiru are heroes there not stereotypes? smh do you realize how stupid you sound right now?

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:16 pm 
Planeta
Planeta
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Posts: 3258
Gender: male
Other: CLAMP PR
John wrote:

It doesn't matter if Zoisite was a capable fighter -- he was depicted as incredibly feminine and a villain. That is a trope for gay men in film and television going back decades. That's undeniable.


As a gay man, I agree with John. Of the 4 generals, Zoisite is portrayed as a vicious villain.

To make a comparison, CLAMP gave us, fans, many gay characters, including feminine ones, and they are all likable and I can identify with many of them. I do not like Zoisite.

_________________
Visit Clow's shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:32 pm 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Aug 27, 2012
Posts: 4993
Location: "Studying" With Ami-Chan!
Gender: Male
Other: Married To NQS!
^^and how should a villain act? all kind and generous? a villain is supposed to be vicious Clow its what makes a villain a villain

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:36 pm 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4228
John wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
John wrote:
As a gay guy, I dislike Zoisite/Kunzite because it plays into too many stereotypes for my taste.

Nephrite/Naru is disgusting.

I really like Usagi/Mamoru in the manga -- not so much the 90s anime.

I don't like seeing the Inners with anyone other than one another because they've stated multiple times that their "true mission" is to protect Usagi at the cost of their own relationships with others. I just think that's the most "true to the story" interpretation. That said, this only applies to the manga, because they don't state this in other versions of the story. In PGSM, Rei/Minako is amazing.

Haruka/Michiru reigns supreme, of course.

I don't think Zoisite and Kunzite plays into stereotypes. I mean yes they are a masculine and femme pairing but so was Haruka and Michiru. However Zoisite and Kunzite were shown to be incredibly devoted to each other and loved each other dearly.

Next I don't see how Nephrite and Naru are disgusting both had a tragic love for one another and if the complaints are with the age difference then that is foolish as again Naru is ready for romantic relationships as she is a teenager.


Kunzite and Zoisite play into negative stereotypes for gay male characters in the 90s anime: they're villains, they both get killed off, and Zoisite in particular is offensive to feminine gay men. If you're not a gay man then maybe you should step off a bit here, you're entitled to your opinions but please let the gay men speak for themselves when it comes to what we find offensive vs. what we don't (and I'm sure other gay men don't find Zoisite and Kunzite offensive, and that's fine for those guys).

Age differences matter, Maria. They absolutely matter when there are minors involved. And that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

Naru as a teenager is ready for a romantic relationship with one of her peers. Nephrite isn't one of her peers. He's evil and put lots of people in danger multiple times. Yes, he does "turn good" very quickly near the end of his life, but he doesn't do much to redeem himself. Naru and Nephrite did not know each other very well. They were not in love with one another.

They were in lust with one another.

Naru was in love with a lying, evil man and he died protecting her before he could start to redeem himself as a character. Such a horrible story -- and it's so insulting for Naru as well. Thankfully she gets a better romance with Umino.

First of all just because you are a gay man doesn't mean your opinion about gay men in media is somehow above anyone else's yes they were villains but again their relationship with one another was portrayed as a positive thing and they were shown deeply devoted to one another. I don't see a problem with Zoisite being effeminate. Yes he is somewhat effeminate but he is still a very strong and capable figure I also don't see him as being more evil then any of the other Shitennou. Plus according to their backstory they were originally good but brainwashed by Beryl. Zoisite's death was portrayed as incredibly tragic and Kunzite was devoted to Zoisite till the end on his death saying he will join him.

And again I don't see a problem with the age differences on the show. I for one as a teenager always sought older usually adult men to date as the boys in my school were immature and rather foolish. Plus most were not accepting of the trans thing. In Japan for instance the age of consent is 13 all though there are some stipulations.

Also I completely disagree Naru and Nephrite were not "in lust" with one another. Sure the relationship started off as Nephrite manipulating Naru but later he began to have feelings for her and showed his desire to turn good and was protective of her and even died protecting her. A person merely in lust with someone else wouldn't do that. I personally think that Naru and Nephrite's story was very tragic and brought out the best in both characters.

Now that being said I do prefer Naru's relationship with Umino because of how devote Umino is to her and I find him adorable and endearing.

Also I do agree with you Ryo I don't think that Zoisite was anymore evil then any of the other Shitennou. Heck one of the most evil villains in my eyes was allowed to turn good. Queen Nehellenia basically pulled an Elizabeth Bathory on her own people and was as vicious as they come yet she was still allowed to turn good. I thought she was way more evil then the Shitennou. Also by extension Petz and Calaveras basically disowned Berthier for failing and encouraged her, their own sister to kill herself. Atleast Kunzite and Zoisite were loyal to one another.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:54 am 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Aug 27, 2012
Posts: 4993
Location: "Studying" With Ami-Chan!
Gender: Male
Other: Married To NQS!
Image

^^^not counting Maria this just about sums up this thread for me

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:39 am 
Yoshi
Yoshi
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 05, 2009
Posts: 6424
Location: Philippines
Ryo Urawa wrote:
Image



:whee: :megaman: :whee: :megaman: :whee: :megaman: :whee: :megaman: :whee: :megaman: :whee: :megaman: :whee: :megaman: :whee: :megaman: :whee:

Spoiler: show

_________________
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:52 am 
Luna Crescens
Luna Crescens
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 10, 2012
Posts: 181
Honestly, I see where John is coming from and his experience as a gay man should actually be relevant to pointing out problems with the Zoisite Kunzite pairing. I mean I like Kunzoi, but I'm not going to pretend that there's no problems with it (and the overused yaoi trope).

Anyways:
Usagi and Mamoru: Would be cute if they had more normal relationship moments. Like moments where Usagi wasn't jealous of Chibi-Usa, Usagi wasn't doubtful that Mamoru actually loved her or respected her as an equal, or Mamoru wasn't intentionally going out of his way to hurt her. Ugh.

Michiru and Haruka: Amazing in the anime, terrible in the manga. I'm pretty sure Naoko wrote them after watching a Takarazuka Revue performance and thought "wouldn't it be cool if these guys caused a sexy misunderstanding for Usagi and Mamoru?" And that's as far as she thought about the H-M relationship.

Naru and Nephrite: Really creepy. :|

Rei and Mamoru: Proof that Mamoru is an insentient life form and will go on a date with anyone who asks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:33 am 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4228
kamen_glider wrote:
Honestly, I see where John is coming from and his experience as a gay man should actually be relevant to pointing out problems with the Zoisite Kunzite pairing. I mean I like Kunzoi, but I'm not going to pretend that there's no problems with it (and the overused yaoi trope).

Anyways:
Usagi and Mamoru: Would be cute if they had more normal relationship moments. Like moments where Usagi wasn't jealous of Chibi-Usa, Usagi wasn't doubtful that Mamoru actually loved her or respected her as an equal, or Mamoru wasn't intentionally going out of his way to hurt her. Ugh.

Michiru and Haruka: Amazing in the anime, terrible in the manga. I'm pretty sure Naoko wrote them after watching a Takarazuka Revue performance and thought "wouldn't it be cool if these guys caused a sexy misunderstanding for Usagi and Mamoru?" And that's as far as she thought about the H-M relationship.

Naru and Nephrite: Really creepy. :|

Rei and Mamoru: Proof that Mamoru is an insentient life form and will go on a date with anyone who asks

Again I am in the LGBT camp as a transwoman and I don't see the issues with Zoisite and Kunzite. Honestly in the anime the only thing I would have done differently was to have them and all of the Shitennou turn good and be Tuxedo Mask's team and guardians. Zoisite and Kunzite could even be Tuxedo Mask's team's answer to Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune.

Actually there were several normal relationship moments between Usagi and Mamoru. Also Mamoru pretty much never went out of his way to hurt her when they were a couple. Mamoru bent over backwards to please Usagi even when she could be very obnoxious and difficult like with Usagi's birthday episode. Also there were many moments where Usagi and Chibiusa had loving moments and the jealousy factor didn't show up but with regards to Usagi's insecurities I think it is just due to her nature. One of Usagi's flaws is her insecurity in herself and others. The other Senshi and even Mamoru have their own insecurities that show up as well.

However for Haruka and Michiru I agree whole heartedly. The 90s anime fleshed them out and showed them as a devoted couple where as in the manga it seems like they only exist to build up Usagi and Mamoru's relationship. Then again pretty much all of the other Senshi in the manga are pretty much there to build up Usagi and Mamoru as well.

Again I never saw Naru and Nephrite as being creepy even though I do admit I prefer her with Umino I still appreciated Naru and Nephrite's devotion to each other and their tragic love story.

As for Rei and Mamoru he mainly went on dates to keep her happy. Maybe he thought they shared some common interests but eventually he figured out they were better suited as friends. Even Rei herself seems to agree with this as she pretty easily let Mamoru go when she found out about Usagi and Mamoru's feelings for one another and their past lives.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:49 am 
Gurges Ater
Gurges Ater
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 9985
Location: Embelyon
The thread is getting a momentum! I feel like I must contribute. :oh:

kamen_glider wrote:
Honestly, I see where John is coming from and his experience as a gay man should actually be relevant to pointing out problems with the Zoisite Kunzite pairing. I mean I like Kunzoi, but I'm not going to pretend that there's no problems with it (and the overused yaoi trope).

And if I'm a heterosexual man, does it mean I can decide for other heterosexual couples how they are supposed to dress, behave, and live to be considered "good heterosexuals" and not "bad heterosexuals"? If I can't and those heterosexual couples will just tell me to f*** off (and they will, that's for sure), why does being a gay man should give anybody any rights to decide how "good gays" are supposed to dress, behave, and live?

_________________
Image
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... shoujocity
iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shoujo- ... 1128360282


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:48 am 
Planeta
Planeta
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Posts: 3258
Gender: male
Other: CLAMP PR
But you have to take into account that gay men are marginalized, whereas heterosexual men are not.

I, as a gay man, felt marginalized. I suppose that, being heterosexual, many of you did not feel marginalized the way I did.

While growing up, I tried to identify positive depictions of gay characters in anime and other TV shows. When you feel stigmatized like I did and you encounter a fictional character to which you can relate, you feel inspired --and sometimes even empowered.

I will use as an example Eagle (from Magic Knight Rayearth). He is feminine (voiced by Megumi Ogata, Sailor Uranus VA), is implicitly attracted to Lantis, and is involved with Geo (there is a particular scene in the anime that explores the depth of their relationship). He is also the hero of season 2. He is brave, a strategist, employs military tactics against his enemies, is willing to die to achieve his mission, and sacrifices himself to save the three Magic Knights and Cephiro. I felt inspired by him as a character. When you are a 14 year old and you are gay and you feel bullied and marginalized, you constantly look for reassurance and validation from others. Eagle, despite being a fictional character, delivered a very strong and positive message.

Zoisite, on the other hand, is one of the most vicious villains from Sailor Moon: he taunts and bullies Nephrite, shows no remorse for Nephrite's death, and is a character to which I simply cannot relate. Even his death makes me cringe. I cannot relate to Zoisite and feel that Zoisite, as a character, portrays gay men and/or trans individuals in a very negative light.

Because gay men are already marginalized, I feel that we don't need a character like Zoisite. Characters like Zoisite perpetuate the misleading perception that we are evil, dishonest, and weak --and, sadly, that is how the majority of people (at least outside North America and parts of Europe) see us.

_________________
Visit Clow's shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What do you think about the relationships in this show?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:01 am 
Gurges Ater
Gurges Ater
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 9985
Location: Embelyon
Clow wrote:
But you have to take into account that gay men are marginalized, whereas heterosexual men are not.

The very fact they are marginalized means that nobody should have the right to dictate how they are supposed to look and behave, not that you (or anybody else, for that matter) should have the right to enforce on anyone your particular vision of the only "correct" behavior for that marginalized group.

Clow wrote:
Because gay men are already marginalized, I feel that we don't need a character like Zoisite. Characters like Zoisite perpetuate the misleading perception that we are evil, dishonest, and weak --and, sadly, that is how the majority of people (at least outside North America and parts of Europe) see us.

You could as well add "intolerant" to the list of common (misleading?) perceptions. I kind of suspect that if some gays out there had a chance and enough political power, we would return to medieval times of book censorship and witch-hunting of all "bad gays" who dare to act differently and don't fit into definition of the only correct (and allowed to exist) "good gays". :zoid:

_________________
Image
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... shoujocity
iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shoujo- ... 1128360282


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Moonies browsing this forum: No registered moonies and 10 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB

contact forum administrator