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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:45 am 
Stella
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Just watched episode 41 and 42 of the Viz dub. The latter of which was of course skipped
by DiC . Some things to address

Episode 41:
Someone tell Viz that "Douse yourself in water and repent" sounds stupid in English


"If you're gonna recycle recycle cans!" Who needs Sailor Says when the original
Japanese version/Viz dub has awkward aesops with bizarre segues throw in the actual episode?


Episode 42:
The two most popular suggestions as to why this episode was skipped by DiC was because "Sailor V wasn't as well known " and "the scene with the grenade" the entire argument for the former is asinine as American viewers definitely knew who Sailor V was (except the Nostalgia Critic I guess). The grenade thing holds some water but I still have my doubts. For one grenades aren't as easy to find lying around the house as guns (and Sailor Moon let the burglar from Venus's debut keep his shotgun) and DiC doesn't seemed bothered by suggesting death unless someone actually dies. If anything DiC skipped this episode because Prince Darien takes a backseat to the plot and DiC found it expendable to their 65 episode package.


Also watching this episode without the glasses of "Oh my God a lost episode!" this episode wasn't as good as I remembered mostly because it makes no sense.


How did Minako, a middle school student, move to a completely different continent and live there? Why couldn't it be set in Tokyo?

And Artemis apparently didn't know any of this uhhhn wasn't he the one who awakened her and mentored her?

What was Alan's relationship with Minako? She knew him before Katarina and he seemed older. Like he is to Minako what Motoki was to Usagi in early series one but Motoki was familiar with Usagi because she frequented his arcade that he worked at. How did Minako and Alan meet and why were they close in spite of the age difference.

Kunzite should know Minako is Sailor V (he teleports into the hotel room after she leaves as Minako) but ehhh not important I guess.

Well when I watched the series it didn't seem to me as though Artemis didn't know this stuff rather he was merely acknowledging what Sailor Venus was saying.

Also Sailor V was following a Youma of the Dark Kingdom that escaped to London so that is why she went. Also Minako seems to have money. In the manga of Sailor V for instance she did travel to Greece and China.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:07 am 
Galaxias
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Also Sailor V was following a Youma of the Dark Kingdom that escaped to London so that is why she went.
The question wasn't asking why she went there, but how she was able to go live there.

MariaTenebre wrote:
Also Minako seems to have money. In the manga of Sailor V for instance she did travel to Greece and China.
She only got to go to those places by winning contests that involved those trips, not by paying for them herself. And the Greece trip was a mistake made by the airport people. She was supposed to go to Hawaii instead.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:21 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Aren't all the Sailor Guardians supposed to be fairly high class?


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:06 pm 
Luna
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That is irrelevant. You don't get to be 14 and say "Mom, dad ...I'm moving to London for a few months because reasons love you bye <3"


Minako could be loaded (and I think of the 5 only Ami and Rei actually have high class backgrounds) and it doesn't justify how she can live in another continent without the school or her parents caring.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:16 pm 
Nebula
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I think Minako moved to England on her summer vacation,she could tell her parents that she wanted to learn English there so its understandable.i just can't understand her relationship with Allan although i gotta admit they look so nice together and so sad that things went bitter between them.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:28 pm 
Galaxias
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Neon Genesis wrote:
Aren't all the Sailor Guardians supposed to be fairly high class?
Usagi, Minako, and Makoto are all middle class.

Rei as well might be considered middle class since, while her family has their own shrine, they don't seem particularly that much more well off than the above three are.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:37 pm 
Nebula
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^ Rei attends to an upper class school,her family must be rich to pay for it

In manga,her father seems rich too,but it has nothing to do with anime

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:38 pm 
Luna
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Yes Rei attending a private school and having a politician father indicates upper class


Usagi's father is a reporter and her mom is a housewife they're definitely NOT high class

Ami's mom is a doctor and they live in a condo


Mako, well I assume she lives off her parents life insurance and savings? But she doesn't seem well off

We don't know anything about Minako's family but she seems middle class. Probably in the same income range as Usagi's family.


Minako saying she's going to England to speak English doesn't make sense.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:48 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
That is irrelevant. You don't get to be 14 and say "Mom, dad ...I'm moving to London for a few months because reasons love you bye <3"


Minako could be loaded (and I think of the 5 only Ami and Rei actually have high class backgrounds) and it doesn't justify how she can live in another continent without the school or her parents caring.
I assumed Minako participated in a foreign exchange program. That would be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

Quote:
Usagi's father is a reporter and her mom is a housewife they're definitely NOT high class
I had always heard Usagi's unusually large house was a sign that her family is pretty well off. At least this ANN article seems to suggest so. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/the-lis ... 21/.111252


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:03 pm 
Nebula
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I also noticed that minako's house is smaller than usagi's so I thought usagi's family is richer than her

If i could make a list.from richest to poorest,i could say:
1.Rei
2. Ami
3. Usagi
4. Minako
5. Makoto

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:02 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised if DiC's reason for skipping episode 42 was solely because the title character is barely in it and/or it didn't progress the main plot. At the time (and probably still today), it's pretty rare for a main/title character to be missing from an entire episode of a children's show. The more emotional story probably didn't help.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:17 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if DiC's reason for skipping episode 42 was solely because the title character is barely in it and/or it didn't progress the main plot. At the time (and probably still today), it's pretty rare for a main/title character to be missing from an entire episode of a children's show. The more emotional story probably didn't help.


Or the main character wanted to kill a innocent person.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:33 pm 
Galaxias
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zttmoon wrote:
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if DiC's reason for skipping episode 42 was solely because the title character is barely in it and/or it didn't progress the main plot. At the time (and probably still today), it's pretty rare for a main/title character to be missing from an entire episode of a children's show. The more emotional story probably didn't help.


Or the main character wanted to kill a innocent person.
That could have been easily rewritten by DiC, so I doubt it played any part in being an obstacle for dubbing the episode.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:45 am 
Luna
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They've already suggested that "Moon dusted" monsters are simply sent back to the Negaverse. All you need is to have Moon threaten to banish her to the Negaverse.


Heck Jupiter threatened to blast Rita's monster form back to the Negaverse.


You can argue the Negaverse is a hell dimension like the hellmouth in Buffy but still


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:01 am 
Planeta
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:

You can argue the Negaverse is a hell dimension like the hellmouth in Buffy but still


Nah, it's the shadow realm from Yu-Gi-Oh.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:35 pm 
Solaris Luna
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I don't think "blasted back to the Negaverse" is suppose to be taken literally. I mean, c'mon. It's like saying Ralph Kramden is literally going to send his wife to the moon.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:50 am 
Luna
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Sabrblade wrote:
Neon Genesis wrote:
Aren't all the Sailor Guardians supposed to be fairly high class?
Usagi, Minako, and Makoto are all middle class.

Rei as well might be considered middle class since, while her family has their own shrine, they don't seem particularly that much more well off than the above three are.

If I remember correctly, Minako's family is actually on the poorer side of the spectrum as explained by the Sailor V manga. I think she mentioned they weren't well off enough for a tv set or something.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:55 am 
Nebula
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^ i looked at codename sailor v manga to see that
It was in chapter 3.she says we don't even have an antenna or a tuner in our house.that's it if anybody's interested

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:35 pm 
Luna
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Yes I’m bringing this topic back. On an impulse I watched both the DiC and Viz dub first episode.


Well first off despite what some detractors will tell you *cough* Sailor Moon Uncensored*cough* aside from the added prologue the DiC episode is more or less the same as the Japanese/Viz version. The general plot is there granted it’s so basic it would be hard to change.


1. Making your mark as a dub

This isn’t a 1 to 1 comparison but looking at the immediate impression the dub makes. The DiC dub takes footage from Japanese episode 44 and adds it to the beginning. This creates an almost storylike quality that I appreciate. Some said it gave away that Usagi was the princess which is utter bull. The Japanese version didn’t even attempt to hide it either. The down side of this opening is it is a misleading and makes viewers think the show is going to be more “epic” from the get go then it actually is this almost makes the wait for the reveal unbearable


The Viz dub in keeping with being uncensored, unaltered, and unchanged doesn’t do this so there’s nothing to compare. What is worth comparing is Viz makes their mark by leaving the Japanese opening untranslated and the episode title untranslated (at least Sheh tells us the episode title) while I accept this is probably Toei or Miss Takeuchi’s doing I don’t like it. It’s an English dub. Dub the opening and it’s totally okay to translate the episode title into english.

Dic: 1
Viz: 0

Conversation in the courtyard

Naru tells Usagi about Sailor V they then talk about jewelry and how they could understand why someone would steal it (what?) and oh by the way Naru’s mom is having a sale!
This is all of course straight from the Japanese version why am I bringing this up? The Dic version is better.

Serena already knows Sailor V (which makes her fan girlism make a lot more sense) so no point in talking about her. Instead Molly decides the best way to keep Serena’s mind off her academic woes is an off screen trip to the mall and then they go stop by her mom’s store which is having a sale. This segue is so much more natural than “you hear about Sailor V? She stopped a jewelry theft. I’d steal jewelry too my mom’s having a sale let’s go” like uhh what?

Dic: 2
ViZ: 0


The Dark King prepares it’s invasion


Again keeping with the original Beryl’s forces can’t find the silver crystal so she says they’ll have to settle for energy to satisfy the great ruler.

By contrast the DiC dub has Beryl saying they need human energy to attack “the other dimension” only for her to randomly bring up the crystal in episode 7 and then again in episode 18. The DiC dub was bad about this as it also has Amy randomly talking about looking for the moon princess in the photography episode BEFORE Luna tells them about it 4 episodes later.
DiC’s whole handling of how much the characters knew was really sloppy especially in the first half of the season and it starts here

Dic: 2
Viz: 1


Usagi/Serena meets Mamoru/Darien

DiC actually seems to keep the idea that Serena doesn’t know him (she doesn’t address him by name) and it’s Molly who reveals his name in the 2nd episode (how does she know him?) and Serena suddenly acts more familiar with him (perhaps the Japanese episode 2 was going to be dubbed with a script written where Serena learned his name there and the writers forgot to correct this when they dropped that episode?)

But really I can’t get over when Darien talks all I hear is Spider-man from the PS game I played as a kid. Also while meatball head is a much more amusing nickname than bun head I begrudgingly admi bun head works better both as a nickname and describing an actual hairstyle.

DiC: 2
ViZ:2


Sailor Moon’s wail

While I wanted to mostly avoid comparing voice actress I like Sheh and Moore both a lot butI really need to point out how weak Sheh’s “wail” was when she activates the sonic amplifiers on her hair decs by contrast Tracey Moore’s wail is incredibly shrill and you can see why its causing the youma and the brainwashed zombies physical pain.


Stephanie Sheh is the definitive English Sailor Moon but only because Moore never got to do more than 13 episodes. If Tracey Moore had at least finished season 1 I’m almost confident she would be considered the best English Sailor Moon except by devoted DiC bashers.

DiC: 3
Viz: 2

After the episode

DiC introduces their Sailor Says this one is about never giving up or something. It’s not as lulzy as some of the later ones so it’s waaay less fun. Viz keeps with dubbing the next episode previews. Something I wish DiC had dubbed I think that would have been amusing seeing Serena and Luna talk about the next episode DiC style


DiC:3
Viz: 3


So yeah both dubs had their strong points and negative points


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:39 am 
Luna
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^ Nice. I'll still take Viz over DiC at the end of the day, but the first episode isn't too bad as far as the old dub goes. I still want to compare the 2 dubs for several episodes of S, but I keep procrastinating. XD

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:00 am 
Luna
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If I may make a couple request?

Episode 125- If I remember correctly this was the most faithfully translated episode in the entire Canadian dub with it being pretty much line for line the same as the original.

Episode 106- The infamous Uranus and Neptune flashback episode where Cloverway/Optimum hopes you forgot they told you they grew up together

Episode 90- Of course the interest of being the first episode but I think its interesting because you have a team whose now on third series vs a team that just replaced 3 of its 5 principle cast members


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:42 am 
Lapis Lunaris
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I like VIZ dub very much. The actresses are spot on, intonations are right, and their texts are very close to the original anime. In Dic dub, on the other hand, voice actresses are often overacting, their voices aren’t really suit to their characters and that stupid censorship of everything that was already mentioned for a millionth time. Plus, I think renaming all the characters was a stupid idea. After all, Hikawa shrine and all of the hieroglyphs were left untouched, so anyone could figure out that this is Japan.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:57 am 
Luna
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Death Buster wrote:
In Dic dub, on the other hand, voice actresses are often overacting,

The voice acting in the Optimum could be over the top but the anime itself is campy and over the top.

By contrast the Viz dub is waaay understated and sedated. A good chunk of the voices are interchangeable (Luna and Naru for example) a lot of the Viz voices lacked in personality.

That's not to say the Viz voices are bad. Many of them are in fact quite good. Disqualifying Moore for only doing 13 episodes and never getting to sink into the serious side of Sailor Moon, Sheh is by far the best Moon. Higgins is a perfectly fine voice performer her voice is just too normal and could have easily been given to Naru or Minako. Cristina Vee is really good but I think Katie Griffin gave Mars more oopmh. Miller is just as good as Susan Roman. And while Cherami also suffer a bit from generic teen girl itis (but Minako is by far the most normal so it works better than Ami) she's the perfect balance between Stephanie and Emilie Barlow.


Quote:
their voices aren’t really suit to their characters

Of the ones that matter Terri Hawkes is the only one whose voice didn’t suit the character. By which I mean the character Usagi. It fit the character Serena as the dub reimagined her as a Cher from Clueless type teen. The other major voices suited the characters perfectly fine for the most part.

Quote:
and that stupid censorship of everything that was already mentioned for a millionth time.

The woes of airing on commercial television versus straight to dvd. The different dubs are filling different niches


Quote:
. After all, Hikawa shrine and all of the hieroglyphs were left untouched, so anyone could figure out that this is Japan.



ummm heirogylphs? lolwut


The dub didn’t exacty hide it was in Japan. They mention Tokyo at least once within the first 30 episodes and named dropped it repeatedly by the Rini arc.





The westernization was mostly because they wanted a show kids would respond better to. The anime climate wasn’t like it is NOW. At the time kids would respond better to a protagonist named Serena than Usagi. Snacking on donuts made more sense than pork buns. Etc


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:28 am 
Lapis Lunaris
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Quote:
ummm heirogylphs? lolwut

That’s how we call Japanese writing system in my language. I don’t know how to call it in English, so I just made a literal translation instead. Still, I think in the context of what I said it was pretty easy to understand what did I mean.

As for the rest of what you said, it’s fair. What I said previously was just my personal opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:27 am 
Luna Nova
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I would rather watch the Dic dub any day of the week. I mean honestly, I have absolutely no use for the Viz dub I enjoy the Dic dub as a work of its time I love the music and the voice acting and I could go without a lot of the censorship and localization but if I want to see the show in its purest form I will simply watch the subbed version. I mean seriously I don't know why people like it so much it really lacks oomph and Stephanie Sheh is definitely not the definitive english voice of Sailor Moon for me I mean she is certainly easier on the ears than Linda Ballantyne but it's not like she actually sounds anything like Kotono Mitsuishi. Kotono's voice is extremely unique her shrill yelling is absolutely music to my ears. I remember I was watching Hunter X Hunter for the first time and when they got to the heavens arena fight when it was Gon V Hisoka and the lady announcer was yelling in awe at the fight and I was just like... is that Kotono? It was :love:


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:33 pm 
Galaxias
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Death Buster wrote:
Quote:
ummm heirogylphs? lolwut

That’s how we call Japanese writing system in my language. I don’t know how to call it in English, so I just made a literal translation instead.
That word refers to ancient Egyptian writing.

Since Japanese has two different writing systems (one of which comprises of two different-looking alphabets), in English it would just be called "Japanese letters" or "Japanese text" or "Japanese characters" or "Kanji and Kana", etc.

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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:03 pm 
Solaris Luna
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
While I wanted to mostly avoid comparing voice actress I like Sheh and Moore both a lot butI really need to point out how weak Sheh’s “wail” was when she activates the sonic amplifiers on her hair decs by contrast Tracey Moore’s wail is incredibly shrill and you can see why its causing the youma and the brainwashed zombies physical pain.

Stephanie Sheh mentioned at a con that the director tends to think less is more, and will have her re-do any takes she feels are too over-the-top. That more understated direction works wonders for Crystal, but I think it holds back the 90s redub at times. Like you said above, the 90s anime is supposed to be campy and over the top.

It is something the redub is getting better about, though. Like they let Stephanie really sink her teeth into the "Crisis Make Up!' scene in 125. Compare her acting there to her more subdued reactions to the Inners deaths in season 1 and the difference is striking.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:35 pm 
Luna
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The Blizzard Prince wrote:
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
While I wanted to mostly avoid comparing voice actress I like Sheh and Moore both a lot butI really need to point out how weak Sheh’s “wail” was when she activates the sonic amplifiers on her hair decs by contrast Tracey Moore’s wail is incredibly shrill and you can see why its causing the youma and the brainwashed zombies physical pain.

Stephanie Sheh mentioned at a con that the director tends to think less is more, and will have her re-do any takes she feels are too over-the-top. That more understated direction works wonders for Crystal, but I think it holds back the 90s redub at times. Like you said above, the 90s anime is supposed to be campy and over the top.

It is something the redub is getting better about, though. Like they let Stephanie really sink her teeth into the "Crisis Make Up!' scene in 125. Compare her acting there to her more subdued reactions to the Inners deaths in season 1 and the difference is striking.




That goes along way to explaining a lot. The Viz dub is incredibly flat and often too understated like they’re trying waay too hard to be the anti-Optimum. To its own detriment.


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:48 pm 
Luna
Luna
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blondibear_17 wrote:
Stephanie Sheh is definitely not the definitive english voice of Sailor Moon for me I mean she is certainly easier on the ears than Linda Ballantyne but it's not like she actually sounds anything like Kotono Mitsuishi. Kotono's voice is extremely unique her shrill yelling is absolutely music to my ears. I remember I was watching Hunter X Hunter for the first time and when they got to the heavens arena fight when it was Gon V Hisoka and the lady announcer was yelling in awe at the fight and I was just like... is that Kotono? It was :love:



Of course Sheh isn’t a replica of Kotono Mitsuishi but of the 3 English actresses that voiced Sailor Moon to a significant degree she best captures the essence of Mitsuishi’s performance. But not much competition Linda Ballatyne was no matter how much she improved (and she did improve greatly I watched a couple clips of the SuperS finale and was very impressed how far she came from the first episode of S) nothing will change how horribly miscast she was.

And again Terri Hawkes is great. She IS Serena. But as a faithful rendition of the original Usagi? That’s she not

I can’t stress how superior I think Tracey Moore. She captures the essence of Usagi but does a far better acting job than Sheh and sounds more natural (its pretty much her actual voice)

but I can’t count Moore as a contender when she only did 13 episodes none of which got a cha chance to showcase the emotional side


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 Post subject: Re: DiC vs. Viz
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:30 am 
Luna Nova
Luna Nova
Joined: Nov 21, 2017
Posts: 15
For Me I Like The Voice Acting In The Viz Media And Dic Version Equal But I Have To Say Viz Media Will Win Because The Quality Is Colorful And Pretty Good It's Uncut And You Get To See The Full Episode Some Dic Episodes Cut Some Stuff Out I Can See Why But I Like The Viz Media Version Better But I Really Enjoy The Dic Version Also


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